D3, it's great but is it true sales have been disappointing?

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Originally posted by Noddy
rmp -- I think my last post overlapped with your previous one, hence my comments in relation to the Fender fitting the premium brand strategy.

While the Defender has well and truly recovered its development costs, it still has one of the highest unit costs in the entire automobile industry. LR have chosen to not address this problem which BMW went to war over until 2008.

I am a little confused. The fact they contine to sell 25,000 units each year, with neglible marketing, would indicate there is a signifcant market to be had, but LR intends to walk away from this market with the new Defender? Or continue to play in this segment with the old Defender? (which begs the question how will the old Defender fit in the model line-up with the 2008 one :? :roll: )

What are the development costs of the new 2008 Defender (I would imagine some significant re-tooling and pressing even though they will use the D3 platform) compared with this obscure market segment. The current Defender market includes: primary producers, military, utilities and the 'purist 4WD-er'. How does LR expect to get a return on the new Defender when they are only catering to the later category which morphs into the bottom end D3 segment?

Toyota have been very successful with 'being all things to all people' and making their vehicle line-up reflect this (using pretty much antiquated technology). LR are hedging their future on playing in some very niche product areas yet still having to carry the cost burdens associated with being an innovator.

Me think it is a very ballsy play and one which you would want steadfast guarantees from Ford on.

If Henry keeps losing cash at the current rate, guess who will come into the sights of the good'ol boys in Dearborn??

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25,000 units a year at the moment. As laws change the number of markets that the Defender can be sold into will decrease. So it needs an update. And 25k year worldwide isn't that impressive.

The new Defender will be a premium product and as such the profit per vehicle is higher than a mass-market. Look at Ferrari for an extreme example.

Also think about where that LR technology goes. Into Ford and other vehicles. DSC isn't LR-specific. Territories have hill descent control and traction control, that's from LR.

Premium also means best, not just expensive. Look at the D3. It's the very best at what it does. The new Defender will be better than the Patrol, 78 Series etc but more expensive.

Also the new Defender shouldn't be seen as a bottom-end D3 any more than the RRS is a bottom-end Rangie. Many people who could afford D3s would buy a Defender if that's what suited them, in the same way that people who could afford a RRS may buy a D3 HSE instead.

For whatever reason LR don't seem likely to play in the mass military etc market.

WOW:!: :!: :!: Some thread, very interesting.............

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Originally posted by Jamo
This hill needed momunetum and I couldn't build it up. Later on I realised that at the time I was in sand driving mode, which reduces throttle response somewhat to try and prevent wheelspin. What I should of done was go to normal mode for that one hill as I could then have built up more speed and the greater momentum would have pushed me over the crest.

Still learning. 8O

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I took mine on the beach on Boxing Day, and yes still learning, I wasnt prepared we were just returning from a drive and decided to give it a try..........no snatch straps, compressor, tire guage or anything in fact.

Well.....

Driving along in what I thought was sand mode the engine just didn't have any power or rev range and eventually dug it self in and a very hot smell coming from the RH front side.

Pule all the sand out had a think, realised I had it in grass and snow and tha if I had been driving the RR I would have been in low range, it occurred to me that the sand mode is in high range, lowered the yres by sight and drove out.
That will teach me a lesson..........dont go into a situation without some prepatation...........both with equipment and mentally.

As Jamie said...............Still (read starting) learning

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Originally posted by RichardK+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RichardK)</div><div class='quotemain'>WOW:!: :!: :!: Some thread, very interesting.............

<!--QuoteBegin-Jamo
This hill needed momunetum and I couldn't build it up. Later on I realised that at the time I was in sand driving mode, which reduces throttle response somewhat to try and prevent wheelspin. What I should of done was go to normal mode for that one hill as I could then have built up more speed and the greater momentum would have pushed me over the crest.

Still learning. 8O

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I took mine on the beach on Boxing Day, and yes still learning, I wasnt prepared we were just returning from a drive and decided to give it a try..........no snatch straps, compressor, tire guage or anything in fact.

Well.....

Driving along in what I thought was sand mode the engine just didn't have any power or rev range and eventually dug it self in and a very hot smell coming from the RH front side.

Pule all the sand out had a think, realised I had it in grass and snow and tha if I had been driving the RR I would have been in low range, it occurred to me that the sand mode is in high range, lowered the yres by sight and drove out.
That will teach me a lesson..........dont go into a situation without some prepatation...........both with equipment and mentally.

As Jamie said...............Still (read starting) learning[/b][/quote]

As I was always taught: Never go anywhere unless you have a withdrawal plan!

I can't wait to get into into different terrain to experiment with the different settings. The D3 is the first 4WD i've driven that has traction controls of any sort, so I'm a bit of a virgin in this area.

I actually had to pump my tyres up to 16psi for the sand. I bought some of those Staun deflators and read on the pack that they were pre-set to 18psi. Put them on when I got onto the beach and went and had a cuppa. Obviously someone had been playing with them before I used them. When I got back I had four flat tyres. That'll teach me to blindly rely on something before testing it first! :oops: :oops: :oops:

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Originally posted by Jamo
As I was always taught: Never go anywhere unless you have a withdrawal plan!

I can't wait to get into into different terrain to experiment with the different settings. The D3 is the first 4WD i've driven that has traction controls of any sort, so I'm a bit of a virgin in this area.

I actually had to pump my tyres up to 16psi for the sand. I bought some of those Staun deflators and read on the pack that they were pre-set to 18psi. Put them on when I got onto the beach and went and had a cuppa. Obviously someone had been playing with them before I used them. When I got back I had four flat tyres. That'll teach me to blindly rely on something before testing it first! :oops: :oops: :oops:

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Oops :!: :!: :!:

I am anxious to experiment too, think I will be down at Harvey shortly, maybe I will be able to talk Black Betty to come

I'll have to get over that way sometime. There's not a lot except sand out this way. There's a few granite outcrops and occasional mud after heavy rain, but nothing to write home about! could always go up to Norseman for a weekend I suppose, but not until i get a set of stake resistant tyres. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Hi Richard
BlackBetty and others!!!!!!
Sith,and Welshman are new and have indicated they are interested in a WA outing.Jamo from Esperance is also interested in a WA outing,perhaps a bit far to travel,BUT he has a D3 to keep you company.
AND we havent got AgroJnr,Shano,Tiny or Taz down there yet!!!!!!
DirtyDawg should have his Disco fixed by now,I bet we could get him along.
JamesH should be interested,he had a ball last time.
Anybody else ?????
WHEN ARE WE GOING GUYS?????
Andrew

I'm always keen! 8)

It'll be a dry trip..............I mean no mud................not no booze :!: :!:

but summer trips can be just as much fun there are some great rutted tracks,
I will look at the calender, mind you, if so many are coming I will probably bring the RR

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Originally posted by Noddy
rmp -- I understand where LR fits within PAG, but to me it does not make commercial sense.

If LR is a premium brand, why are they even still selling the Defender, because we all know it ain't a premium product in the mould of the D3 or RRS. In the UK they are still selling Defenders and commercial vans to all sorts of utility companies and farmers, so how does that fit with the premium brand? What is 'Defender' meant to say to the market in the brave new world of the 'premium brand'?

At best, LR is sending a contradictory message to the market about its brand image and at worst it has no strategy and is torn with internal confusion about its model line-up.

Where does the 'new' 2008 Defender fit in the model line-up when compared with a D3 S? Or back closer to the original post, how do punters distinguish between the RRS and D3 HSE when there is only a few $K between them?

To me, the whole LR 'strategy' does not pass the logic test, which to someone who loves the marque and wants to see it thrive, is concerning.

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Well yes and no, Noddy. In the UK wouldn't you agree that the workings of class and image and the way people seek to identify is a little more complex than "Defender does not fit into Yuppy branding because Farmer/soldier does not = Yuppy"? For example in England and here in Oz as well to a lesser extend the farming secto does have cache amongst the Yuppy set. Wellington boots, Barber anoraks, do not say "Pesant" they say the opposite. The Defender is very country homes, AGAs, hounds and brisk walks through the drizzle after lunch with Princess Anne.

One of the most telling pieces of "set dressing" I ever saw was ithe Series 2A in Four Weddings & A Funeral. It was owned and driven by the seventh richest man in England and there they were Andie McDowell, Hugh Grant etc all piling in for the drive back from the wedding. They could have used a Rangie if they wanted they chose a Defender and they knew exactly what they were doing.

If anything in England Defenders are MORE snooty than Range Rovers.

Oh and yes please if I am free I am interested in a drive day in the bush.

Frenchie I heard you on the news this morning updating on Cyclone Claire - you sounded very authoratorive. It was on rotation in the actual news section not justr the weather. I think that means they need to pay you more.