Thread: "Demerit" Points.

Well Ak, that's it,..you were the victim of a very serious, and from what could have been, by the sound of it, fatal accident, and the perpetrator gets ONE demerit point & a nominal fine,...which "time" did obviously NOT fit the "crime", which is exactly what I am trying to say in our situation.
Glad you get the idea that Wifey & I are careful drivers,..because we are,...always.
Obviously we have differing views. I'm not going to get into a discussion about speed cameras, radar, or whatever the device in question is.
We've had several fast cars, one that comes to mind being a Mercedes AMG C63,..6.2L 500HP,..VERY fast,..and safe. Well on one occasion we were in one of our favorite places, the Mallee, and we were cruising back to our accommodation, sitting on 95ks (100 zone), when sitting amongst the trees we spied as we passed, a Police Ford Territory,...... with a Radar Gun!!. There would be lucky to be a dozen cars a day on that road, but it's pretty straight, easy to do any speed you like, but with no other traffic, dead straight road, do you not think that officer could be better employed?
Pickles.

Originally Posted by Wolfriver

Thirdly; In Qld the Transport Operations Road Use Management (TORUM) Act is an illegal act that cannot be enforced in any court of law for one simple reason... There is NO proclamation in existence for the Act as required under the rules of Parliament.
In Qld they even went so far as to remove section 2 of the amended act, the Commencement. ALL acts MUST have a section 2, which is always titled the Commencement, saying this act will commence when it is proclaimed to be an actual enforceable Act by the Queen (or the GG).
Most states are in the same boat regarding this.

Not wanting to be pernickety or inflame debate, but this is misguided. Re Proclamation itself, the commencement was on 01 July 1995- see SL No 206 of 1995 (Proclamation made on 20 June 1995). The Acts Interpretation Act specifically addresses the removal of a commencement section (See in particular s19A). Its quite common to remove it after a period of time, as its basically redundant once an act is in force.

Originally Posted by Pickles2

Well Ak, that's it,..you were the victim of a very serious, and from what could have been, by the sound of it, fatal accident, and the perpetrator gets ONE demerit point & a nominal fine,...which "time" did obviously NOT fit the "crime", which is exactly what I am trying to say in our situation.
Glad you get the idea that Wifey & I are careful drivers,..because we are,...always.
Obviously we have differing views. I'm not going to get into a discussion about speed cameras, radar, or whatever the device in question is.
We've had several fast cars, one that comes to mind being a Mercedes AMG C63,..6.2L 500HP,..VERY fast,..and safe. Well on one occasion we were in one of our favorite places, the Mallee, and we were cruising back to our accommodation, sitting on 95ks (100 zone), when sitting amongst the trees we spied as we passed, a Police Ford Territory,...... with a Radar Gun!!. There would be lucky to be a dozen cars a day on that road, but it's pretty straight, easy to do any speed you like, but with no other traffic, dead straight road, do you not think that officer could be better employed?
Pickles.

But Pickles, you forgot the revenue... If we dont maintain revenue, how would we be able to afford new monuments to our wonderful leaders...

You said that well, its no longer about stopping crime and protecting the people, its about income and statistics... speeding laws are not logical when you look at the effect they have on people, the increase in offending is directly related to the increase in fines... but hey, why look at things that way when people can get on there soap box demand more restrictions and at the same time get praised for improving the revenue stream...

PS, many years ago in a country town... The local Police where part of the community, very little crime, very few traffic offences and very few crimes committed... Local police got repremanded for the low ticketing of speeders, thus they where issued with an order to have a radar trap on the highway...
I drove into town and noticed a Police car with a radar chained to roo bar and the dog in the cab was screaming... so I stopped and checked the car out, all locked up, padlock on radar and trigger tapped up...
Stopped in station to enquire and was informed, "Order to set radar trap on highway", the Sgt said, "No one told me we had to be there"...
They where our Police and we got along well, and every body helped each other and would tell the police of someone doing wrong, no need for a heavy hand...

Why cant we be like that everywhere, the Police can do a better job if they are part of the community and not trying to be outsider chasing everyone as a crim...

Driving on the road is not a right but a privilege. I'll leave it at that.

Time for a rant!!!

I have driven for over 40 years, 30+ in the UK. Never had a speeding fine in the UK... despite driving FAST cars as they are meant to be driven on glorious twisty country roads and on the the Motorways. The UK 'divided' road limit is 70 mph (110Kph)... most people drive about 80 to 90 mph (145kph)... the Cops are not interested as it is SAFE to drive at those speeds, in modern cars on roads designed for that purpose.

By contrast, in my first 2 years back in Oz, I got 4 speeding fines! Two in Sydney, 63 and 64 kph in a 60 zone and two in Melbourne on Eastlink, doing 103 and 104 Kph in a 100 zone. That is less than 2-3 mph over the limit, a number that is actually quite hard to see on a typical Oz vehicle speedometer, often scaled up to 240 Kph!!! WHY!!!

There is ZERO benefit to road safety fining someone for that. It's just blatant revenue raising.

Oz is nuts on the roads now. Everyone is petrified of speeding, because we have cops and cameras everywhere. As as result, people 'stare' at there speedometers, instead of looking out the window for traffic hazards and anticipating traffic flow.

Have a look next time you are out there. The result is we have traffic all 'droning' along, in side by side 'formation' and tailgating. Both of these things ARE a hazard to safety... how many times do I see a car right next door to a 50T Truck, sitting there for Km after Km. And have a look at damaged cars in repair yards... most have front to rear damage... tailgating.

People are not taught how to be good safe drivers here. They are taught how to keep a car on the road and stay between lanes. There is precious little 'thinking' present and very little 'courtesy' shown to each other.... We see road rage and aggression, probably as a result of being restrained by the knowledge that 'speeding' will probably be caught and fines/points will result. We are all 'corks in a bottle', just wanting to have a bit of commonsense 'freedom' when driving, sensibly, with respect to the road laws but also in accordance to the actual traffic conditions. But we cannot. It's just so draconian.

I sold my sports car here after a year. There was NO way I could enjoy driving it as it was designed to be driven. As for huge V8 muscle cars and exotic supercars, what a waste they are in Australia! That was one reason why I now own a diesel Defender... and a 990cc VW!

Anyway!

Originally Posted by YOLO110

Time for a rant!!!

I have driven for over 40 years, 30+ in the UK. Never had a speeding fine in the UK... despite driving FAST cars as they are meant to be driven on glorious twisty country roads and on the the Motorways. The UK 'divided' road limit is 70 mph (110Kph)... most people drive about 80 to 90 mph (145kph)... the Cops are not interested as it is SAFE to drive at those speeds, in modern cars on roads designed for that purpose.

By contrast, in my first 2 years back in Oz, I got 4 speeding fines! Two in Sydney, 63 and 64 kph in a 60 zone and two in Melbourne on Eastlink, doing 103 and 104 Kph in a 100 zone. That is less than 2-3 mph over the limit, a number that is actually quite hard to see on a typical Oz vehicle speedometer, often scaled up to 240 Kph!!! WHY!!!

There is ZERO benefit to road safety fining someone for that. It's just blatant revenue raising.

Oz is nuts on the roads now. Everyone is petrified of speeding, because we have cops and cameras everywhere. As as result, people 'stare' at there speedometers, instead of looking out the window for traffic hazards and anticipating traffic flow.

Have a look next time you are out there. The result is we have traffic all 'droning' along, in side by side 'formation' and tailgating. Both of these things ARE a hazard to safety... how many times do I see a car right next door to a 50T Truck, sitting there for Km after Km. And have a look at damaged cars in repair yards... most have front to rear damage... tailgating.

People are not taught how to be good safe drivers here. They are taught how to keep a car on the road and stay between lanes. There is precious little 'thinking' present and very little 'courtesy' shown to each other.... We see road rage and aggression, probably as a result of being restrained by the knowledge that 'speeding' will probably be caught and fines/points will result. We are all 'corks in a bottle', just wanting to have a bit of commonsense 'freedom' when driving, sensibly, with respect to the road laws but also in accordance to the actual traffic conditions. But we cannot. It's just so draconian.

I sold my sports car here after a year. There was NO way I could enjoy driving it as it was designed to be driven. As for huge V8 muscle cars and exotic supercars, what a waste they are in Australia! That was one reason why I now own a diesel Defender... and a 990cc VW!

Anyway!

I completely agree, having also come here from the UK.

The majority of drivers (here in Sydney at least) are combination of aggressive, inattentive, indecisive and discourteous.

Having said that, I owned a V8 musclecar for four years here before buying my RRC and despite the speedo never working in all that time I didn't pick-up a single ticket because I've been driving long enough to be able to accurately judge my speed from my surroundings.

Many years ago (1960) I used to drive an International school bus (I think it was mid to late 40s) between Robe and Kingston. The International was downright dangerous as the brakes were quite unreliable and I lost the boost a couple of times. Anyway, there was a sign as you entered Robe which said "35 MPH Please". Darned if I could ever get the old bus up to 35 but I tried. Gutless hardly described it. Speeding fines were not an issue.
We live in a different world now. By the way 25kph past a school crossing works well in SA. Most drivers do the right thing and there has never been a death on a monitored school crossing in SA. Not a bad record.

Pickles. I hope you understand that my comments aren't directed at you and or your wife, but they are directed at your comment that you can't understand why that small section of road is only 40k/h.
This isn't the only 'strange' 40k/h section of a major shopping/leisure/school strip in Melbourne.
Bourke road in Camberwell, Mt Alexandra Rd in Moonee Ponds .. just to name two that stand out to me when it appears that they could easily support 60k/h in quiet times.

The point of my replies is to highlight that it's easy to dismiss these 40 k/h zones as revenue raising ventures, but the underlying point is that there is so much activity on these roads at other times, that I'm convinced it has more to do with safety as the No1 priority. Revenue raising is a bonus(to the govt obviously).

And as for the deserted road situation you describe. personally I'd rather see(and or hear) of more police doing the same.
The point may well be revenue raising .. and if that revenue is from motorists breaking the law, then that means more money for whatever govt activity that I'm not paying for (in the way of additional taxes)

My thinking is purely selfish .. if other's run that gauntlet and have the means to pay up, and give the govt an extra $100-200mil per annum, then that means about $20-40 less tax I have to pay if the govt didn't get that money every year.
But with those situations of camera cars or police hiding behind whatever cover they can to capture those errant drivers(remember while we think it's not unsafe, it's still breaking the law).
At some point if people don't get that there is a legal speed limit, and they finally get it that this hidden revenue raiser could catch them, then it becomes a part of the consciousness that they could be anywhere, and people will adjust. Hopefully!

The current public commentary recently has been about using the phone whilst driving. See this every day everywhere(being seated up high in my every day vehicle). It's just stupid!
Anyhow, part of the commentary on the topic raised the issue of drink driving and how society view it nowadays.
Back in the day it was just an annoyance, that you could drink and then drive yourself home. You could have 10 or 20 and you were fine .. but studies showed that you were not fine, and a risk to other users. Many deaths resulted.
But a generational change seems to have sunk it in, that drinking and then driving is simply uncool, not done, and unacceptable. Habits have changed, society has accepted that it's not the done thing now.

It's no different to speeding. How fast is safe? To you, maybe 110.. maybe 120 in a Merc. What about the idiot that thinks 250 is safe? Why is that point of view any different to your much lower opinion? Would you want an idiot doing 250 coming the other way and an emu of wombat pops out in front of you and they swerve a little losing control and ... well think about it.
It's not the actual situation that's important, it's the ingrained psychology that I can't just do whatever I want when I want just because I feel it's safe.

Just recently, there was a young man that got killed in a single vehicle accident up north way(can't remember exactly). No one else involved, and the road was a 'safe' one as you describe on this Mallee road. I suspect speed was the cause. Can't remember but a single vehicle accident scream out speed. What would have been safe for him? His family have lost a son, or possibly a father, or whatever.
It's not the first time, and it won't be the last time this type of story is going to be news.
And even at 100 some people just aren't safe! How do the government know this? .. especially considering the pathetic licensing policies in Aus! I'd rather see Finnish type licensing system than .. if you can park a car. Or if you can use the 10-2 steering method to control a car!

So you'd prefer to see no speed limits on our roads .. considering the morons out there driving on them?
Imagine the carnage with all those unsafe trucks(ie. Cootes petrol tankers! ) unrestricted on those dreadful backroads!!

Personally I'd rather that they all dropped by 20k/h to make me feel safer ... that I'm not going to get pinged at 60k/h, and that maybe 40 k/h may have done less damage.