Holden - how long before the end?

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Originally Posted by Tombie

Let’s get pedantic and specific...

HS Steel = Alloy
Mild Steel = Alloy
Aluminium = Element
Aluminium Alloy = Alloy

And they now have an Aluminium Alloy that is as strong as steel at same dimensions/thickness.

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Yes - virtually all structural metals are alloys, but can you give a reference to the alloy that is a strong as steel? And which steel are we talking about? Some steels are a lot stronger than other steels.

However, I should point out that material strength is not the only criterion for a structural strength. For structures with compressive loads, the critical property of a material is the Young's modulus of the material, as failure will be by Euler buckling. And this is independent of the alloying of the metal. Strength of the material is the key factor for things like shafts, fasteners, connecting rods etc, but for many parts of a vehicle, other properties are even more important - corrosion resistance, hardness, resistance to work hardening, ease of machining, malleability etc etc.

Just to add to the Explorer/D3 link.
I read quite a long time ago that the Explorer chassis was the first to use a new technology of hydroforming the chassis , where a fluid is used to form the various shapes.

My understanding from the article was that this enabled the chassis to be designed so that the suspension arms could pass through formed holes/apertures in the chassis giving a lower profile.

Again the article stated that the D3 chassis was a development of the Explorer chassis no matter how much Land Rover fanatics would like it not to be so.LOL. Below discusses the technology

Frame By Frame | Industry content from WardsAuto

Regards Philip A

Sorry for going off-topic here.
My wife works for a Holden dealer and told me they have not sold a new Commodore since their release about 3 weeks ago, they are selling some of the specked-up old shape with some rare models going out unregistered to be mothballed for the future, the more basic models are moving slowly.
IMHO Gmh has made a huge blunder naming this new car a Commodore and you can see that it might easily drag the sales of other models in the stable down with it and that will be the end of Holden.

I haven't owned a Holden for 10years, the last was a WH2 Statesman which was a beautiful looking car in Mica Red but i didn't like driving it, we decided to replace it so the missus brought home a current Statesman and a SV6, these were both poor to drive and no better than the WH. She then brought home a Nissan Maxima so now we have had a Maxima for about 8 years now and couldn't be happier.

As stated here the demise of our auto manufacturing could be traced back to the John Button Plan plus a few other poor decisions and looking around the world there are few countries if any with 23 million people making there own cars.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by whitey56

Sorry for going off-topic here.
My wife works for a Holden dealer and told me they have not sold a new Commodore since their release about 3 weeks ago, they are selling some of the specked-up old shape with some rare models going out unregistered to be mothballed for the future, the more basic models are moving slowly.
IMHO Gmh has made a huge blunder naming this new car a Commodore and you can see that it might easily drag the sales of other models in the stable down with it and that will be the end of Holden.

I haven't owned a Holden for 10years, the last was a WH2 Statesman which was a beautiful looking car in Mica Red but i didn't like driving it, we decided to replace it so the missus brought home a current Statesman and a SV6, these were both poor to drive and no better than the WH. She then brought home a Nissan Maxima so now we have had a Maxima for about 8 years now and couldn't be happier.

As stated here the demise of our auto manufacturing could be traced back to the John Button Plan plus a few other poor decisions and looking around the world there are few countries if any with 23 million people making there own cars.

Cheers

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Good to be back on topic, and the whole situation is summed up beautifully, & correctly, in your last para.
Pickles.

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

Just to add to the Explorer/D3 link.
I read quite a long time ago that the Explorer chassis was the first to use a new technology of hydroforming the chassis , where a fluid is used to form the various shapes.

My understanding from the article was that this enabled the chassis to be designed so that the suspension arms could pass through formed holes/apertures in the chassis giving a lower profile.

Again the article stated that the D3 chassis was a development of the Explorer chassis no matter how much Land Rover fanatics would like it not to be so.LOL. Below discusses the technology

Frame By Frame | Industry content from WardsAuto

Regards Philip A

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The explorer i worked on had large round holes which the rear driveshafts were poked through, but hydroforming isnt needed for that.

I reckon the Explorer that we are referring to in the thread is one of these.

Attachment 138147

They also have the Hill Descent control and the terrain selection buttons from the Disco 3, although none of the off road capability but are a very nice vehicle for their intended purpose.



Regards
Tote

Regarding the new "Commodore" not selling - what were they thinking in keeping the Commodore name? Bad move right there! Not a lot of bogans going to get Opel/Peugeot/Citroen tattoos!

You can't tell me the writing wasn't on the wall about Opel selling out to Peugeot/Citroen - that sort of thing doesn't happen overnight. [bighmmm]

And apparently this ex-Opel model is probably going to be discontinued shortly? What then - a Daewoo/Commodore? :eek2:

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Originally Posted by donh54

What then - a Daewoo/Commodore? :eek2:

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China?

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Originally Posted by Tote

I reckon the Explorer that we are referring to in the thread is one of these.

Attachment 138147

They also have the Hill Descent control and the terrain selection buttons from the Disco 3, although none of the off road capability but are a very nice vehicle for their intended purpose.



Regards
Tote

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Which end is the front?

I actually worked on an earlier model, one of the ones ford brought to australia. I was surprised how differently things were done. Crossmember locations and configuration, swaybar links (they had one bolt and one nut, undo those and it all came apart, nifty), driveshafts through chassis rails, 'simple' double wishbone rear, tabs on nuts to prevent rotation as you did them up, vulnerable items mostly tucked out of harms way above the chassis rails. Made sense, it was influenced by light truck design. I just kept looking and looking. Absorbing. I liked it until i tried to remove the swaybars, then the relationship wasnt so one dimensional.

The interior aesthetic was horrible. Super bland and dowdy.

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Originally Posted by rammypluge

China?

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The VE/VF Commodore was already an Australian assembled Chinese car. GM bought the failing Korean car company (Daewoo) in 2001. By 2011 it was producing GM cars for the Asian market. I suspect, eventually, most of our GM cars will be coming from South Korea.