Thread: Australians turn their backs on Holden

Originally Posted by Homestar

It will only be done to death when they roll over and die. This thread started based on latest sales figures, and I'll continue to dredge up their ****ty performance and remind everyone how badly they screwed over this Country. Doesn't matter at all to me who made the decisions, I get that GM own Holden, but why try and say 'Holden didn't do it, GM did!' - it's all the same thing. Looks like most Aussies agree with me given their Sales (or lack thereof)

Gav, you are usually fairly sensible with your analysis of things, but mate when the word HOLDEN crops up, you seem to lose the plot. Did you read the link I supplied?...Fairly lengthy, but as I said, one of the best summations I've seen?..what did you think of it?
Can't you understand the difference between "Holden" & "GM Detroit", because you should, if you can't or don't want to, you're never going to understand..because it was GM Detroit who did not/would not support any of Holden's export/new model programs, without which HOLDEN / Commodore whatever was doomed, because NO manufacturer, anywhere in the world, makes a car just for its own country with a population the size of Aus,....it's impossible, that's why it doesn't happen,...anywhere.
Mate, there is MASSIVE differentiation between "GM DETROIT" & "Holden", when talking about the current situation, and how it came to be, you don't seem to want to listen, because you keep putting **** on "Holden", and remember, they were actually the last to shut up shop.
There wouldn't have been one single Holden employee who would have contributed to what's happened,..ALL decisions coming from GM Detroit.
I understand you're ****ed of with the current situation, you don't like the cars etc etc etc, but I would hope that you can discern the HUGE difference between Holden & GM.
I've never had a financial interest in Holden, never worked in a Dealership etc, so I'm no Holden "one eyed fanatic", yep I've owned a few Holdens, HSVs etc, but I've also owned Ford, Audi, Morris, Landrover etc etc,....I'm not really a devotee of any particular make, but I do take an interest in cars & the Aussie auto industry, and have done so for a very long time.
I'm as disappointed as anyone to see what's happened, I don't like it, I do know a few people in the Holden camp as I do other brands, & I can tell you the Holden guys are hurting,....but they don't blame "Holden", simply because none of the "fateful" decisions came from Fishermans Bend.
Pickles.

Originally Posted by johntins

OK, You've given me new hope. I have a long memory, Slunnie, and you had a go at me a while back.... If this is about something else then let it fly. Yes, I believe that they love Toyos, and I don't blame them, much as it hurts. The things work.

Sometimes, Slunnie, I think we need to meet, at some level, in order to know who we are.

Originally Posted by johntins

Darn it. I say we shift the clock, and I don't care where we shift it it to, and we ditch daylight saving. That way we could hav an iintelligent conversation...

I'm sure Slunnie and I can manage that... Maybe...

Johntins, I quite sincerely have no idea what happened a while back, and despite my blue oval coloured glasses comment which was my out of line comment, I really don't look at the conversations as a personal thing. Play the topic, not the man, and robust disussion is pretty cool - but I hope that whatever happened back then that it was a discussion directed at the topic and not the man, my apologies if you think I've been attacking Johntins. I don't have any grudge or anything against you or anybody else on the forum (well, I have learnt not to reply to one member, but what he is interested in is very cool) and if anything I think your opinion is good and I have found your posts in here to be really interesting. From my end we are all good, I think we're both just in this conversation because its interesting.

Originally Posted by Pickles2

Gav, you are usually fairly sensible with your analysis of things, but mate when the word HOLDEN crops up, you seem to lose the plot. Did you read the link I supplied?...Fairly lengthy, but as I said, one of the best summations I've seen?..what did you think of it?
Can't you understand the difference between "Holden" & "GM Detroit", because you should, if you can't or don't want to, you're never going to understand..because it was GM Detroit who did not/would not support any of Holden's export/new model programs, without which HOLDEN / Commodore whatever was doomed, because NO manufacturer, anywhere in the world, makes a car just for its own country with a population the size of Aus,....it's impossible, that's why it doesn't happen,...anywhere.
Mate, there is MASSIVE differentiation between "GM DETROIT" & "Holden", when talking about the current situation, and how it came to be, you don't seem to want to listen, because you keep putting **** on "Holden", and remember, they were actually the last to shut up shop.
There wouldn't have been one single Holden employee who would have contributed to what's happened,..ALL decisions coming from GM Detroit.
I understand you're ****ed of with the current situation, you don't like the cars etc etc etc, but I would hope that you can discern the HUGE difference between Holden & GM.
I've never had a financial interest in Holden, never worked in a Dealership etc, so I'm no Holden "one eyed fanatic", yep I've owned a few Holdens, HSVs etc, but I've also owned Ford, Audi, Morris, Landrover etc etc,....I'm not really a devotee of any particular make, but I do take an interest in cars & the Aussie auto industry, and have done so for a very long time.
I'm as disappointed as anyone to see what's happened, I don't like it, I do know a few people in the Holden camp as I do other brands, & I can tell you the Holden guys are hurting,....but they don't blame "Holden", simply because none of the "fateful" decisions came from Fishermans Bend.
Pickles.

I guess at the very least the design engineering side of Holdens operations is still active. A friend of mine is one of the engineers at GM Detroit (BTW, there is a lot of really cool stuff under development over there) and they're still using Holdens engineers and design teams for their work, with him making trips to Melbourne to tie in with the Australian teams in development of new products.

My vested interest in Holden is trying to find a working 2bl carby for the 202 in my Landy.

Originally Posted by Pickles2

Gav, you are usually fairly sensible with your analysis of things, but mate when the word HOLDEN crops up, you seem to lose the plot. Did you read the link I supplied?...Fairly lengthy, but as I said, one of the best summations I've seen?..what did you think of it?
Can't you understand the difference between "Holden" & "GM Detroit", because you should, if you can't or don't want to, you're never going to understand..because it was GM Detroit who did not/would not support any of Holden's export/new model programs, without which HOLDEN / Commodore whatever was doomed, because NO manufacturer, anywhere in the world, makes a car just for its own country with a population the size of Aus,....it's impossible, that's why it doesn't happen,...anywhere.
Mate, there is MASSIVE differentiation between "GM DETROIT" & "Holden", when talking about the current situation, and how it came to be, you don't seem to want to listen, because you keep putting **** on "Holden", and remember, they were actually the last to shut up shop.
There wouldn't have been one single Holden employee who would have contributed to what's happened,..ALL decisions coming from GM Detroit.
I understand you're ****ed of with the current situation, you don't like the cars etc etc etc, but I would hope that you can discern the HUGE difference between Holden & GM.
I've never had a financial interest in Holden, never worked in a Dealership etc, so I'm no Holden "one eyed fanatic", yep I've owned a few Holdens, HSVs etc, but I've also owned Ford, Audi, Morris, Landrover etc etc,....I'm not really a devotee of any particular make, but I do take an interest in cars & the Aussie auto industry, and have done so for a very long time.
I'm as disappointed as anyone to see what's happened, I don't like it, I do know a few people in the Holden camp as I do other brands, & I can tell you the Holden guys are hurting,....but they don't blame "Holden", simply because none of the "fateful" decisions came from Fishermans Bend.
Pickles.

I scanned through the article, yes and I get where you’re coming from but to me (and obviously many other Aussies) it makes no difference whatsoever. No matter if they would have survived or not with or without GM interference the way things were done, money stolen from the Aussie Taxpayer and the local industry treated, it doesn’t matter. From being a loyal Holden man I’m not having a go at them for no reason - I just think it’s the pits what’s happened and they are getting what they deserve. No I don’t seperate the names of GM or Holden - they are one and the same and have been since almost the beginning. If you do that’s fine, and if you have some sympathy for Holden, that’s fine too, I have no issue with that, but I don’t, and saying I’m ‘losing the plot’ because of the way I feel about all of this is what’s annoying me.

Differences of opinions is all - you see it one way and I see it another. Don’t make it personal please because I disagree with you.

At the end of the day, if Holdens or GM’s decisions are/were correct, then they should be doing well in sales here which clearly isn’t the case. Right or wrong, they ****ed it up big time, no opinion needed there, the facts speak for themselves.

Originally Posted by Slunnie

My vested interest in Holden is trying to find a working 2bl carby for the 202 in my Landy.

Use a 2 barrel Webber carb off a Ford. I did this mod on quite a few of mine over the years and they work a treat. An adaptor plate is needed to bolt it to a 2 barrel manifold but these are easy to make, and used to be available off the shelf for not much. 👍

Originally Posted by Homestar

Use a 2 barrel Webber carb off a Ford. I did this mod on quite a few of mine over the years and they work a treat. An adaptor plate is needed to bolt it to a 2 barrel manifold but these are easy to make, and used to be available off the shelf for not much. 👍

Ahhhh, I'll check that out! Thanks for this!

Originally Posted by Homestar

I scanned through the article, yes and I get where you’re coming from but to me (and obviously many other Aussies) it makes no difference whatsoever. No matter if they would have survived or not with or without GM interference the way things were done, money stolen from the Aussie Taxpayer and the local industry treated, it doesn’t matter. From being a loyal Holden man I’m not having a go at them for no reason - I just think it’s the pits what’s happened and they are getting what they deserve. No I don’t seperate the names of GM or Holden - they are one and the same and have been since almost the beginning. If you do that’s fine, and if you have some sympathy for Holden, that’s fine too, I have no issue with that, but I don’t, and saying I’m ‘losing the plot’ because of the way I feel about all of this is what’s annoying me.

Differences of opinions is all - you see it one way and I see it another. Don’t make it personal please because I disagree with you.

At the end of the day, if Holdens or GM’s decisions are/were correct, then they should be doing well in sales here which clearly isn’t the case. Right or wrong, they ****ed it up big time, no opinion needed there, the facts speak for themselves.

Don't be ridiculous Gav, I NEVER get "personal", I've been around here long enough for you to know that too. Maybe you could show me where I've done that?
Yes, I do disagree with your point of view, and like I said, if you are unable to separate Holden(Aus) from GM (Detroit) relative to which organization made the decisions, you will never understand.
I would suggest that every single employee that have lost their jobs would be angry (just as you are?), & they'd have every right to be, I have spoken to several senior execs, and they are all angry, all of them, but they are/were Holden, it most definitely wasn't their fault, and their anger/disappointment is well & truly directed at GM Detroit. They don't feel guilty, because they never had any hand in the decisions.
Maybe you ought to have a GOOD read of the link, that is if ya're REALLY interested in what happened.
And mate, I have no issue with you disagreeing with me, plenty of people do. But you've been down this track before with your, what I consider, misguided attacks on Holden. I agree with you on the end result, it's the "journey" to that point where we disagree.
If we are to disagree, it's all good, I just wish you could understand how important the difference between "Holden" & "GM Detroit" is, in this discussion.
Pickles.
As an afterthought, perhaps you could have a thorough read of the link, and then tell me where you disagree with it, because I thought it was a pretty good summation?

We will agree to disagree. I just see Holden as a local brand name for GM, always have to be they are one and the same from where I sit. When I was a kid, dealerships proudly displayed ‘General Motors Holden’ branding, that’s always made it seem to me that’s the message they were conveying.

Oh, and it didn’t bother me, but saying ‘You lose the plot’ suggests something other than a disagreement in opinion. Seems that sort of comment comes from someone who thinks they are absolutely right and others views are less worthwhile, which is something else we will disagree on.

I’ll leave it at that, we’ve both had a good say on our opinions, I don’t think this is likely to go any other way between us, which is fine mate. 👍😊