Corona Virus

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Originally Posted by johnp38

Coronavirus: Pfizer's Covid vaccine is linked to MORE blood clots than AstraZeneca's in the UK | Daily Mail Online
.......... I suspect bureacratic hurdles not just safety has a lot to do with how long it takes to get things approved when there is no urgency like a pandemic.

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Actually, as far as I can see, the main factors delaying testing of vaccines (or indeed any medication) are:-

1. Cost - testing with real people as opposed to rats is very expensive, you have to inject and follow up a wide range of volunteers. A lot easier to find the volunteers and the money/staff in a pandemic.

2. Risk aversion - and I don't mean aversion to the risk of harm to people - I mean aversion to risking money on a product that may not pay off. Again, a lot easier to justify during a pandemic, when you can carry out tests at the same time instead of in sequence, and tool up for production without even knowing whether you have a viable product. (and with any sort of luck someone else will take the risk, for example the government or philanthropists)

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Originally Posted by windsock

Yeah, we're depending on a lot of dumb luck here at present. We missed the opportunity to make our luck by not closing to NSW in a timely manner. Now we are relying on dumb luck that he wasn't infectious.

Relying on NSW to make good decisions related to travel bubbles was stupid. Relying on our decision makers for timely decisions on the same was even dumber.

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COVID is a learning curve, in more ways than one.

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Originally Posted by sashadidi

This is really worth a read re transmission of the Covid 19 virus and how its transmission mode was not understood.
All pandemic long, scientists brawled over how the virus spreads. Droplets! No, aerosols! At the heart of the fight was a teensy error with huge consequences.

See here: The 60-Year-Old Scientific Screwup That Helped Covid Kill | WIRED

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I rest my case, M'lud. [bighmmm]

EDITED. Example in point.


Watch a TV interview with good Studio lighting. Observe how much spittle comes out of their mouths when speaking. Now & then one or the other will excuse themselves for a Sneeze or a Cough but not a fart, although that may yet to be proven, however light, & sometimes drag a crappy handkerchief out of the same pocket that that person has been doing all day.

Beyond that is something you cannot see, but you probably are aware of especially if that person has Halitosis , exhaled breath &/or crap Dental work, (& some of those interviewed really do rattle on like machine guns & get a bit excited) which are aerosols. Of course, they are all around us. Even Blind Freddy could see them.


I am simply mortified that the Scientific Fraternity haven't rumbled this. The Air Conditioning & Ventilation Fraternity certainly have & all we have to back this up is a Pass mark in Refrig/AC 3 or better & no Degrees. :soapbox:

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Originally Posted by bob10

COVID is a learning curve, in more ways than one.

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There are slow learners and there are decision makers. Combinations of the two don't work too well.

Latest news from the 1pm presser. No community cases in today's test results so good news. In sewage tests done on Tuesday no C-19 residue was found either so sounds promising for the dumb luck falling our way.

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Originally Posted by 4bee

I am simply mortified that the Scientific Fraternity haven't rumbled this. The Air Conditioning & Ventilation Fraternity certainly have & all we have to back this up is a Pass mark in Refrig/AC 3 or better & no Degrees. :soapbox:

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Don't think for a minute "...the Scientific Fraternity haven't rumbled this." :soapbox: back at ya! [biggrin]

Google Scholar

A quick look at the publicly available (google scholar) academic and scientific literature, where some scientific writing is published, reveals it was being researched and discussed in the early days of the pandemic. Access to subscription publications reveals even more in-depth research. Publications take time to go through a review process and end up in print or online and yet we have literature published in May 2020 indicating a link and this research would have been started in the early days of the pandemic in order to be published in May. Unless you access this level of literature directly, you will only be seeing what mainstream media shows you or what you choose to see byway of the talking heads they interview.

I have seen it take months for information published in the scientific journals to go from the journal to the mainstream media stories produced by a hack writing a story that would appeal to the readership rather than convey the facts of the article. Sometimes we get lucky and the journal article is picked up quickly by a journalist who understands the material but that is the exception rather than the norm. Bob highlighted Norm Swan in a post a page or so back. It is journalists like him with his med skills needed to get the research across but he is a rare bird in a big swamp.

Just because the so called decision makers seen on TV at night didn't do or say certain things does not mean the scientific community was not out there doing what they do well. Most members of all 'trades' take pride in what they do. Just because I don't see a fridgie fix a fridge or hear about the marvels of the latest chill tech research doesn't mean it isn't happening it just means I am not looking in the right places.

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Originally Posted by windsock

Latest news from the 1pm presser. No community cases in today's test results so good news. In sewage tests done on Tuesday no C-19 residue was found either so sounds promising for the dumb luck falling our way.

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You make your own luck. Hubris and stubbornness are not in the mix. 22 more cases in Sydney today, I make no judgement. History will judge.

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Originally Posted by bob10

You make your own luck.

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Like I said earlier, we missed the opportunity to make our luck by not closing to NSW in a timely manner. The border closure to NSW has been extended to 12 days and the rest of Australian travel-bubble exits are being watched a lot closer now.

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Originally Posted by bob10

You make your own luck. Hubris and stubbornness are not in the mix. 22 more cases in Sydney today, I make no judgement. History will judge.

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History shows you judge frequently [emoji41]

You are one of the Kings of ‘loading the gun’ but letting somebody else pull the trigger…

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Originally Posted by Tombie

History shows you judge frequently [emoji41]

You are one of the Kings of ‘loading the gun’ but letting somebody else pull the trigger…

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Thanks for the character assessment, I'll send you a mirror.