Corona Virus

After using the hand sanitiser and trolley wipes at the entrance to our local Supermarket i noticed that people were entering the store and completely ignoring the aids to help prevent infection and for the safety of other shopper's . The Supermarket deem it necessary to have an attendant at the self service checkout to monitor theft etc. but not to have one at the entrance to the store to help safeguard their shoppers !! , quite obvious why people should not let their guard down any time soon to keep safe from these Morons who think they are above doing the right thing , they live amongst us :thumbsdown: . Rant over time for a coffee .

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Originally Posted by scarry

What second wave?It isn't going to happen.

The virus will always pop up somewhere,it will never be gone completely.Same as all viruses.

But i doubt there will be a 'second wave',particularly if we keep going the way we are,slowly getting back to normal.

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1. History suggests that a 'second wave' is probably going to happen. Saying "It isn't going to happen" is simply wishful thinking, rather than having any logical basis. And opening up too rapidly is the way to bring it on.

2. Some viruses "will never be gone completely", but this is not necessarily the case. Some, such as smallpox appear to have actually completely gone, except for reference specimens held in two highly secure facilities in the USA and Russia. Some viruses also have almost certainly disappeared, including SARS (the most closely related virus to the current one) and MERS. Other viruses can be and have been eliminated from specific areas, and will not be there unless brought in from elsewhere. Polio, for example has been eliminated from all except a handful of countries. Some, those that have animal vectors such as swine flu or avian influenzas, are probably not possible to eradicate, but saying that this applies to all viruses is simply not correct.

3. "Normal" is going to take a long time, or never, if you think "normal" will be the world as it was before March.

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Originally Posted by windsock

All this discussion on border closures between states... to an outsider looking in appears odd but begs the question... is the health system in Australia state or federal?

Border closures were often justified here in NZ to prevent our health system being overwhelmed if the virus got a foothold.

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State, and ditto re the lockdown.

Talking to nurses when the pandemic was first hitting, the projections they were dealing with were terrifying, with hotels near major hospitals being pre-booked to house the expected infected people, so from that perspective both countries have done extremely well to mitigate a potentially catastrophic situation.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

2. Some viruses "will never be gone completely", but this is not necessarily the case. Some, such as smallpox appear to have actually completely gone, except for reference specimens held in two highly secure facilities in the USA and Russia. Some viruses also have almost certainly disappeared, including SARS (the most closely related virus to the current one) and MERS. Other viruses can be and have been eliminated from specific areas, and will not be there unless brought in from elsewhere. Polio, for example has been eliminated from all except a handful of countries. Some, those that have animal vectors such as swine flu or avian influenzas, are probably not possible to eradicate, but saying that this applies to all viruses is simply not correct.

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MERS didnt disappear.

the only viruses we're been able to eliminate have been unique in that they dont have a non human reservoir.

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Originally Posted by windsock

All this discussion on border closures between states... to an outsider looking in appears odd but begs the question... is the health system in Australia state or federal?

Border closures were often justified here in NZ to prevent our health system being overwhelmed if the virus got a foothold.

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The health systems are state managed and federally funded. The federal border quarantine is absolutely essential and will be until there is either minimal difference in infection rates between Australia and other countries or there is an effective vaccine. Border closures within Australia have never been recommended by medical experts at the Federal level but some state premiers decided that it was worthwhile as their state "had no infections" and so they initially justified the border closures. There was a case that could have been made initially, that allowing free movement may have allowed an outbreak to occur within the community of grey nomads traveling around that would be difficult to trace and manage, particularly in remote areas, however that threat has diminished significantly.

Tasmania started the border closure fetish among the States as they saw it as an easy win to stop all non essential traffic on the ferry and the airports, however with a large outbreak in the North West of the state it quickly followed that border closures had little impact on the spread of the virus. WA and now Queensland have also found out that border closures do not work effectively to prevent outbreaks and that the most effective strategy is to trace contacts and test extensively when they occur, managing them in a localised manner.

There are significant resources being deployed at state borders and inconvenience inflicted on border communities for little gain but the premiers have seen the polls respond positively to "being tough on virus control" and this would seem to be the main motivator for the state restrictions remaining. Ahh the joys of being in a federation of states, this is the first time in my lifetime that I have seen such division among the states, the biggest effect of the federation is usually minor annoyances such as differing road rules.

Regards,
Tote

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

1. History suggests that a 'second wave' is probably going to happen. Saying "It isn't going to happen" is simply wishful thinking, rather than having any logical basis. And opening up too rapidly is the way to bring it on.

2. Some viruses "will never be gone completely", but this is not necessarily the case. Some, such as smallpox appear to have actually completely gone, except for reference specimens held in two highly secure facilities in the USA and Russia. Some viruses also have almost certainly disappeared, including SARS (the most closely related virus to the current one) and MERS. Other viruses can be and have been eliminated from specific areas, and will not be there unless brought in from elsewhere. Polio, for example has been eliminated from all except a handful of countries. Some, those that have animal vectors such as swine flu or avian influenzas, are probably not possible to eradicate, but saying that this applies to all viruses is simply not correct.

3. "Normal" is going to take a long time, or never, if you think "normal" will be the world as it was before March.

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1.With the first 'wave',in Australia,most was from international travel.At the time,the virus was newish,and many in the health system,politicians,etc, didn't really know what they were dealing with.The mess with the cruise ships is a good example.
Everyone is now way more educated,and international travel has been restricted,or stopped completely.And the public is also way more educated,we have self isolation,distancing,etc,etc,etc.
This points to the risks of a second wave being very low.

2 Eradicating a virus,such as Covid,completely, that is world wide, is extremely difficult,and wishful thinking.What viruses have disappeared completely?Not from a specific area,but completely?Very few,if any i would think,but stand to be corrected.

3.Sure 'normal' is going to take a long time,but we have to slowly progress towards it.

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Originally Posted by windsock

All this discussion on border closures between states... to an outsider looking in appears odd but begs the question... is the health system in Australia state or federal?

Border closures were often justified here in NZ to prevent our health system being overwhelmed if the virus got a foothold.

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Border closures in Australia were put in place for the same reasons. Nothing political about it, as a matter of fact a quick poll found that over 60% of Qlders thought it necessary. And as it turned out, incompetence in the State making the most noise caused the majority of coronavirus cases in Australia, so it was justified. And legal. It gave Qld the time to get their pandemic response organisation up and running, as was shown by the latest death in Blackwater, which had no infections up to that point. It was confirmed that the deceased , at the autopsy , had the virus. [ unless it was a false positive. ] This man had been bedridden for three weeks with underlaying health problems, had not had any contact with anyone from an area with the virus, so this was a concern, the health organisation in Qld. were full on to find the answers. What muddied the waters was his partner tested negative. Imperative to determine if this was a new development with the virus. That was 11pm , by midday the next day two testing centres were set up in Blackwater and Emerald, and response teams were in the area already looking for community members who may have been in contact with him and testing the public. I'm sure you are aware of the decentralised nature of Qld., and the vast distances involved. Compare that with the Ruby Princess, I know which organisation I want looking after us, and it is not South of the Border.

One aspect of the border closure is not well known. After the Qld border was closed , Grey Nomads [ and others] through their network found a loophole. Hungerford. Hordes of them poured over the border , and that made it necessary for Qld to call in the Army, and Police to man border crossings. A consequence of this was that these people had to be isolated somewhere, and some country towns had these usurpers on their doorstep, eating them out of house and home. Shops ran out of essentials, tempers were frayed, an unnecessary inconvenience.

The Australian Health system responsibility is shared by Federal, State and local government.

Government responsibilities Australia’s federal, state and territory and local governments share responsibility for health and they have many roles (funders, policy developers, regulators and service deliverers) (PM&C 2014). Private sector health service providers include private hospitals, medical practices and pharmacies.
Australia’s health 2016
Australian Institute of Health and Welfare 2016. Australia’s health 2016. Australia’s health series no. 15. Cat. no. AUS 199. Canberra: AIHW.
Australia’s health 2016
2
Australia’s health 2016
Public hospitals are funded by the state, territory and Australian governments, and managed by state and territory governments. Private hospitals are owned and operated by the private sector but licensed and regulated by governments. The Australian Government and state and territory governments fund and deliver a range of other services, including population health programs, community health services, health and medical research, and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander health services. The Australian Government has responsibility for the universal public health insurance scheme, Medicare (including subsidising medical services and providing funding for primary health networks). Local governments, in addition to providing community-based health and home care services, have a significant role in public health and health promotion activities (for example, the provision of immunisation services; smoking cessation, nutrition awareness and weight loss programs; child and maternal health services; and promoting safety and physical activity) and may also deliver environmental health-related services (including water fluoridation, sanitation services, water and food inspection and food safety monitoring) (ALGA 2010; LGNSW 2016) (see Figure 2.1.1).
Figure 2.1.1: Main roles of government in Australia’s health system


Australian Government • sets national policies • is responsible for Medicare (including subsidising medical services and joint funding, with states and territories, of public hospital services) • funds pharmaceuticals through the Pharmaceuticals Benefits Scheme • funds community-controlled Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander primary health care • supports access to private health insurance • regulates private health insurance • organises health services for veterans • is a major funder of health and medical research, including through the National Health and Medical Research Council • regulates medicines, devices and blood


State and territory governments • manage public hospitals • license private hospitals • are responsible for public community-based and primary health services (including mental health, dental health, alcohol and drug services) • deliver preventive services such as cancer screening and immunisation programs • are responsible for ambulance services • are responsible for handling health complaints


Local governments • provide environmental health-related services (for example, waste disposal, water fluoridation, water supply, food safety monitoring) • deliver some community- and home-based health and support services • deliver some public health and health promotion activities
Shared • regulation of health workforce • education and training of health professionals • regulation of pharmaceuticals and pharmacies • support improvements in safety and quality of health care • funding of public health programs and services • funding of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander health services
Sources: Biggs 2013; COAG 2012; Department of Health 2015b; Duckett & Willcox 2015; PM&C 2014.

How does Australia's Health system work? [ Important to remember that comments on border closures may be influenced by the posters' political leanings. Best to get the facts, and work from there. ]


https://www.aihw.gov.au/getmedia/f2a...-work.pdf.aspx

The UN Health Agency has launched the independently run WHO foundation, which the organisation hopes will give it greater control to direct philanthropic and public donations towards pressing problems such as the coronavirus.

WHO launches foundation to put finances in better health

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Originally Posted by bob10

Border closures in Australia were put in place for the same reasons. Nothing political about it, as a matter of fact a quick poll found that over 60% of Qlders thought it necessary. And as it turned out, incompetence in the State making the most noise caused the majority of coronavirus cases in Australia, so it was justified. And legal. It gave Qld the time to get their pandemic response organisation up and running, as was shown by the latest death in Blackwater, which had no infections up to that point. It was confirmed that the deceased , at the autopsy , had the virus. [ unless it was a false positive. ] This man had been bedridden for three weeks with underlaying health problems, had not had any contact with anyone from an area with the virus, so this was a concern, the health organisation in Qld. were full on to find the answers. What muddied the waters was his partner tested negative. Imperative to determine if this was a new development with the virus. That was 11pm , by midday the next day two testing centres were set up in Blackwater and Emerald, and response teams were in the area already looking for community members who may have been in contact with him and testing the public. I'm sure you are aware of the decentralised nature of Qld., and the vast distances involved. Compare that with the Ruby Princess, I know which organisation I want looking after us, and it is not South of the Border.

One aspect of the border closure is not well known. After the Qld border was closed , Grey Nomads [ and others] through their network found a loophole. Hungerford. Hordes of them poured over the border , and that made it necessary for Qld to call in the Army, and Police to man border crossings. A consequence of this was that these people had to be isolated somewhere, and some country towns had these usurpers on their doorstep, eating them out of house and home. Shops ran out of essentials, tempers were frayed, an unnecessary inconvenience.

The Australian Health system responsibility is shared by Federal, State and local government.

Government responsibilities Australia’s federal, state and territory and local governments share responsibility for health and they have many roles (funders, policy developers, regulators and service deliverers) (PM&C 2014). Private sector health service providers include private hospitals, medical practices and pharmacies.
Australia’s health 2016
Australian Institute of Health and Welfare 2016. Australia’s health 2016. Australia’s health series no. 15. Cat. no. AUS 199. Canberra: AIHW.
Australia’s health 2016
2
Australia’s health 2016
Public hospitals are funded by the state, territory and Australian governments, and managed by state and territory governments. Private hospitals are owned and operated by the private sector but licensed and regulated by governments. The Australian Government and state and territory governments fund and deliver a range of other services, including population health programs, community health services, health and medical research, and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander health services. The Australian Government has responsibility for the universal public health insurance scheme, Medicare (including subsidising medical services and providing funding for primary health networks). Local governments, in addition to providing community-based health and home care services, have a significant role in public health and health promotion activities (for example, the provision of immunisation services; smoking cessation, nutrition awareness and weight loss programs; child and maternal health services; and promoting safety and physical activity) and may also deliver environmental health-related services (including water fluoridation, sanitation services, water and food inspection and food safety monitoring) (ALGA 2010; LGNSW 2016) (see Figure 2.1.1).
Figure 2.1.1: Main roles of government in Australia’s health system


Australian Government • sets national policies • is responsible for Medicare (including subsidising medical services and joint funding, with states and territories, of public hospital services) • funds pharmaceuticals through the Pharmaceuticals Benefits Scheme • funds community-controlled Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander primary health care • supports access to private health insurance • regulates private health insurance • organises health services for veterans • is a major funder of health and medical research, including through the National Health and Medical Research Council • regulates medicines, devices and blood


State and territory governments • manage public hospitals • license private hospitals • are responsible for public community-based and primary health services (including mental health, dental health, alcohol and drug services) • deliver preventive services such as cancer screening and immunisation programs • are responsible for ambulance services • are responsible for handling health complaints


Local governments • provide environmental health-related services (for example, waste disposal, water fluoridation, water supply, food safety monitoring) • deliver some community- and home-based health and support services • deliver some public health and health promotion activities
Shared • regulation of health workforce • education and training of health professionals • regulation of pharmaceuticals and pharmacies • support improvements in safety and quality of health care • funding of public health programs and services • funding of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander health services
Sources: Biggs 2013; COAG 2012; Department of Health 2015b; Duckett & Willcox 2015; PM&C 2014.

How does Australia's Health system work?


https://www.aihw.gov.au/getmedia/f2a...-work.pdf.aspx

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I would take issue with a few of those statements

Nothing political about it, as a matter of fact a quick poll found that over 60% of Qlders thought it necessary The fact that 60% of Qlders thought it was a good idea does not make it right, just popular in a state that thrives on being parochial and makes the premier more popular. It also does not have any basis in fact in stopping the spread of the virus.

One aspect of the border closure is not well known. After the Qld border was closed , Grey Nomads [ and others] through their network found a loophole. Hungerford. Hordes of them poured over the border , and that made it necessary for Qld to call in the Army, and Police to man border crossings. A consequence of this was that these people had to be isolated somewhere, and some country towns had these usurpers on their doorstep, eating them out of house and home. Shops ran out of essentials, tempers were frayed, an unnecessary inconvenience.
But none of this would have happened if the borders had not been shut, the QLD govt brought it all on themselves by shutting the border. If stay at home rules had simply been enforced as in other states then people would not have been forced to break the law to get to their end destination. Quite apart from that there were NO cases of coronavirus in those populations anyway so all the angst was for nought.

Compare that with the Ruby Princess, I know which organisation I want looking after us, and it is not South of the Border. There goes that parochialism again, if the Ruby princess was based out of Brisbane the same thing would have happened. At the time the cruise was considered low risk and decisions were made on that basis. With the benefit of hindsight it would have been handled differently. If half of Blackwater develops Coronavirus in the next couple of weeks we will see that border boundaries make no difference to the spread of the virus anyway.


Regards,
Tote

Interesting to read responses to my question. I hope our Govt is taking note of the way things are being managed over there. There is increasing noise i the media about this trans-Tasman bubble and allowing travel between our countries. I personally would not be happy seeing this while there is so many different management responses over there and the difference in results across states. There was a comment back a bit in a post that indicated that the virus did not respect borders. It does if they are closed and limits importing the virus but if that closure impacts on the overall response to the virus by allowing different levels of measures then this weakens the whole. A whole of country response is what worked here with everyone buying into the same pragmatic measures.

Yep, interesting...