Value of Manual Cars

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Originally Posted by disco gazza

Anybody ever drove a truck with the clutch in the middle instead of the brake?

Had a mate that drove a semi(an old Reo), he taught me to drive in with the clutch in the middle.

Was very interesting for the first few miles(as it was back then). [bigwhistle]

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Lot of old vehicles had a central accelerator, 20's -30's, and older race cars. Said to be better for heel and toe combined braking and shifting. Many logging trucks in Canada and US Pacific Northwest had twin stick transmissions with a lever either side of the seat.

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Originally Posted by johntins

Not yet in Europe, or the sub continent.



Well, the manual in my FIAT 124 was sweet. The original MX5/Miata had a gearbox that neared perfection. A good manual can give a sense of satisfaction that no auto can match, IMO. That said, my cars all tend to be auto now, except the Series of course.

When I was offered a choice of a Detroit engined truck with an 18 speed Roadranger, or a V8 engined Scania with Opticruise it was a no brainer. I had to do a fair bit of driving in various built up areas up and down the east coast. Who the hell wants to change 6 or 7 times away from the lights, only to miss them and have to do it all again? And on the highway it is far more relaxing to let the truck do the work.

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I chose the manual Western Star, but recently did a 7,000+ km in an ACM 18RR and I'm on the fence. I didn't like the way it can't creep when backing onto trailers, or the reduced engine braking.
I wish I had a gold coin for each time I put my foot on the non existent clutch pedal and I only use the clutch to lift off and stop.

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Originally Posted by Bigbjorn

RR's are dead easy. Single clutch, double clutch, no clutch. Go try an oldie with a twin stick Spicer and when you master that you are a driver.

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Or a Quad Box.

All our work vehicles are manual,thats just the way it is,no complaints from anyone.

One of my brothers was in a group doing truck driving refresher courses recently.He was one of the few that could drive a manual.

Many also think the autos use more fuel,but these days most are that good,the fuel usage difference is negligible.

It is nice, though,to get out of the manual work van,and into the D4.

One place i certainly don't miss a manual is in soft sand.

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Originally Posted by scarry

All our work vehicles are manual,thats just the way it is,no complaints from anyone.

One of my brothers was in a group doing truck driving refresher courses recently.He was one of the few that could drive a manual.

Many also think the autos use more fuel,but these days most are that good,the fuel usage difference is negligible.

It is nice, though,to get out of the manual work van,and into the D4.

One place i certainly don't miss a manual is in soft sand.

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I know at least one transport company that directs drivers not to use manual mode in the ACMs. They can tell by the fuel usage.

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Originally Posted by V8Ian

I chose the manual Western Star, but recently did a 7,000+ km in an ACM 18RR and I'm on the fence. I didn't like the way it can't creep when backing onto trailers, or the reduced engine braking.
I wish I had a gold coin for each time I put my foot on the non existent clutch pedal and I only use the clutch to lift off and stop.

Or a Quad Box.

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I still reckon the best combination for heavy work and road train is an RR 10 speed with a Spicer P1241C behind it. A single stick transmission. The P on the Spicer is for pneumatic. A four speed air shifter on top of the RR stick. Another good one was a Spicer 1107 and P1241C combination. The 1107 was a straight 7 speed, no range change. Originally a heavy bus box but like all big Spicers built like a brick dunny. This combination gave an excellent progression of ratios from a crawler gear to highway cruising gear. i

Of the three vehicles I learnt to drive on, none had synchromesh. One was a Ford T, no gear lever, only two forward speeds - left pedal, high is up, down is low, and neutral in between (or handbrake partly on also gets neutral), for reverse, left pedal in neutral, press middle pedal. Right pedal is brake. No accelerator, throttle is the left lever under the steering wheel - ignition timing is the right one.

Next was a 1923 Reo. Conventional controls, except accelerator in the middle. But the three speed crash box had reversed gear position (L-R). What made it interesting to drive was first was a real creeper gear - and in top it would do 60mph. It was not a close ratio box.

Then there was a 1931 Swift, conventional controls, except the four speed crash box had a right hand gearshift. Very easy to drive.

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Originally Posted by Bigbjorn

I still reckon the best combination for heavy work and road train is an RR 10 speed with a Spicer P1241C behind it. A single stick transmission. The P on the Spicer is for pneumatic. A four speed air shifter on top of the RR stick. Another good one was a Spicer 1107 and P1241C combination. The 1107 was a straight 7 speed, no range change. Originally a heavy bus box but like all big Spicers built like a brick dunny. This combination gave an excellent progression of ratios from a crawler gear to highway cruising gear. i

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The 7 speed Spicer was a robust box and popular choice in coaches, but had to be treated gently at 38 ton.
What was the sequence of the 10 speed with the 4speed auxiliary, Brian?

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Originally Posted by V8Ian

The 7 speed Spicer was a robust box and popular choice in coaches, but had to be treated gently at 38 ton.
What was the sequence of the 10 speed with the 4speed auxiliary, Brian?

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Ian, I dug around in my old tech. manuals and came up with the ratios for RT12510 & Spicer 1241. These are what we used at White.

RT12510- 1.00, 1.27, 1.65, 2.11, 2.74 / 3.55, 4.50, 5.83, 7.49, 9.71.

Spicer 1241C- .812, 1.00, 1.24, 2.37

Spicer 1241D- .812, 1.00, 1.24, 1.59

A 12510 & 1241C give a first gear ratio of 23.012:1. Most operators that ordered these were in very heavy haulage, mining, heavy off road and off road road train work and loved the range of crawler gears.

Do a gear split chart. Road speed = 60 x governed RPM/tyre revs per kilometre x overall gear ratio.

In 1980 Spicer were promoting the 1107 as an alternative heavy truck gearbox. An 1107-2A had these ratios -10.13, 5.99, 3.66, 2.47, 1.84, 1.33, 1.00. The first gear was essentially a crawler gear for steep grades and manouvering. When used in conjunction with a 1241C it gave a first gear of 24:1

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Originally Posted by Bigbjorn

Lot of old vehicles had a central accelerator, 20's -30's, and older race cars. Said to be better for heel and toe combined braking and shifting. Many logging trucks in Canada and US Pacific Northwest had twin stick transmissions with a lever either side of the seat.

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I had an old VW Golf that had worn the synchro on 2nd to nothing, and then developed an induction leak so wanted to stall under brakes, so I used to have to heel and toe it and double clutch it when slowing to a stop.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

What is the driving experience?

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It's the ability to drive your vehicle while your mate is on the side of the road with another ZF "six speed failure to proceed".

I got stuck in a 45 minute traffic crawl yesterday. Put it in 2nd and let it idle away with a 10 car length gap to the car in front. Cars pull in and out like yoyos out in front, but when the traffic eases up I'm still behind the same vehicle. Nobody gets upset and I don't have to touch the pedals. Ended up with a b double behind me as he could see he didn't have to yoyo with the other muppets. So the manual really isn't a chore, and I have the ability to get off the line with all 4 wheels chirping if I'm in a hurry.

My next bus will probably be a D4 with an 8 speed auto, but it won't be the 6 speed manual causing me to upgrade from the D3.