Thread: Covid Mk ll

Originally Posted by bob10

That may be a little harsh. Delta got out of control in NSW, but it wasn't a deliberate act by the NSW government trying to prove their philosophy worked the best. It did work, with Alpha. Delta is a different beast. But because delta is a different beast, the Doherty report mandating 70% of adults vaccinated as the start point for opening up is proving to be a flawed concept. Overseas , Israel and now the UK have found it just doesn't work that way. Now the " best health advice " overseas is saying 90 % of the Population vaccinated [ children included] is the magic number. Does any one really know? The whole World seems to be playing catch up with delta.

I just would like to have a word about the border problems with Qld and the Tweed. I think the problem is in the nomenclature. Saying they want to shift the border south is of course going to cause consternation in NSW, with the inference being NSW can't control their border. No government can tolerate that. What they really mean is the check points must be moved south, in order to allow the Tweed residents direct access to their jobs in Qld. Give the NSW Police direct control over those checkpoints, with assistance from the Qld Police if requested , or better still use those ADF members swanning around Western Sydney, under NSW Police supervision, and employ them doing an actual worthwhile job.

The Qld government, with NSW's permission could set up mobile testing in strategic spots in the Tweed, and next to them mobile vaccination points. Then mandate every worker crossing into Qld must have at least the first jab, and must have a negative test result. Qld Police would still have the responsibility of deciding who crosses into Qld, the people from the Tweed get to go to work, and NSW still has sovereignty over their border. In other words , putting it crudely, no one has a bigger dick than any one else and peoples sensitivities that make them readily offended and shocked can be met. Why is it so hard? Why are governments still playing politics with this pandemic in Australia?

I agree, particularly with the rephrasing of border movement to checkpoint movement, thats what they did in Albury during the last outbreak and it worked well, but I'm afraid its unlikely to happen this time :-(

Regards,
Tote

Originally Posted by bob10

That point is moot. Their is no personal choice in not having access to a vaccine. Society will not accept the death of children unnecessarily. I know the point of view of some one who has suffered through lockdown and restrictions time after time could be clouded by the experience, and the frustrations felt would run deep. But opening up too early under a flawed plan would be a huge mistake.

…hence why I said once vaccines have been given to every one who wants one.

Hopefully this is at least 90% of those eligible - but to expect fully vaccinated people to accept ongoing lockdowns is not going to happen.

A tipping point in the debate is coming, and politicians are already reading the polling data.

Originally Posted by DiscoDB

…hence why I said once vaccines have been given to every one who wants one.

Hopefully this is at least 90% of those eligible - but to expect fully vaccinated people to accept ongoing lockdowns is not going to happen.

A tipping point in the debate is coming, and politicians are already reading the polling data.

I agree we have to evolve. The Pandemic is now Endemic and we move with it of course.

The 1000 + dead in the US yesterday shows how not to do it. Vaccine should be first I think. Watching Canada with 26768+ over all dead and their " national 7-day average of 2,216 new cases reported daily (Aug 13-19) ..an increase of 38%" shows a rather nasty bit as " 83% of people aged 12 years or older have received at least one dose of COVID-19 vaccine and 74% are now fully vaccinated"
Canada is in some ways very similar to us- Except that glazier feed freezing cold water which froze me once

We will reopen. It will see carnage for a time. A lot less than if we opened before we get over 80%.

I understand why it suits politicians to misrepresent the views of their opposition, but it would be disappointing if that practice spread to our forum.

People who advocate lockdowns are generally not arguing we should employ them "forever" (as a certain politician has said). Most of them mean we use them just as much as is necessary to get things under control.

Conversely those who oppose them generally don't mean we "let it rip" with no restrictions whatsoever. Most of them mean that we should only employ the minimum number of restrictions needed to stop things getting out of hand.

The claim that the other side is advocating either all or nothing is a lazy, dishonest argument.

Some politicians and some of the general public seem unaware that there are such things as moderation, subtlety, nuance, and compromise.

Originally Posted by Tote

I agree, particularly with the rephrasing of border movement to checkpoint movement, thats what they did in Albury during the last outbreak and it worked well, but I'm afraid its unlikely to happen this time :-(

Regards,
Tote

Yes it seemed so obvious. It's the people of the Tweed who suffer over this intransigence.

Originally Posted by NavyDiver

I agree we have to evolve. The Pandemic is now Endemic and we move with it of course.

The 1000 + dead in the US yesterday shows how not to do it. Vaccine should be first I think. Watching Canada with 26768+ over all dead and their " national 7-day average of 2,216 new cases reported daily (Aug 13-19) ..an increase of 38%" shows a rather nasty bit as " 83% of people aged 12 years or older have received at least one dose of COVID-19 vaccine and 74% are now fully vaccinated"
Canada is in some ways very similar to us- Except that glazier feed freezing cold water which froze me once

We will reopen. It will see carnage for a time. A lot less than if we opened before we get over 80%.

Still that mythical creature of 80%. Do you mean 80% of all our population, children included or just 8o% of eligible adults?

Originally Posted by bob10

Still that mythical creature of 80%. Do you mean 80% of all our population, children included or just 8o% of eligible adults?

The number being quoted by most pollies is 80% of eligible population.

I think once that number is hit non compliance will be pretty much impossible to quell as most people are getting quite edgy about the lockdowns. They’ll make the call based on where their popularity is when that number gets close. If it starts dropping quickly, they’ll open up to save their own necks.

Originally Posted by Homestar

The number being quoted by most pollies is 80% of eligible population.

I think once that number is hit non compliance will be pretty much impossible to quell as most people are getting quite edgy about the lockdowns. They’ll make the call based on where their popularity is when that number gets close. If it starts dropping quickly, they’ll open up to save their own necks.

All indications are Qld will resist opening up too early, without proper restrictions in place, will still rely on targeted lockdowns, and closure of the border, under the advice of the CHO, as per the Constitution. Our CHO has said she thinks 90% is the target we should be aiming for, if so, a long way to go yet here, not quite 50 % ATM I believe.