Covid Mk ll

**Arapiles** · 24th December 2022, 12:20 PM

Medicines have side-effects: one I used to take meant that I had to avoid direct sunlight, another causes my face to swell up and another causes anxiety. There's no doubt that vaccines can also have side-effects, which vary in severity from person to person - in fact that was widely known and publicised in the case of the Pfizer COVID vaccine.

The problem I have with Kerryn Phelps is that, no matter how balanced she is if you read what she said in detail, by using the term "vaccine injury" she's giving oxygen to the anti-vaxxers who argue that all vaccines are harmful all of the time, and by suggesting that the medical regulator silenced doctors - which is what the headline to the story says - she's feeding into the narrative that there was a huge cover-up by the medical establishment:

Asked why the medical regulator warned doctors not to speak out about vaccine side effects, Dr Phelps said, “You have to ask AHPRA themselves about their motivation. But certainly quite a number of doctors that I’ve spoken to have felt impeded in speaking out about their concerns about vaccine adverse events because of the statement made by AHPRA that doctors shouldn’t say anything that was going to impede the government’s vaccine rollout. They took that to mean not to publicly raise their concerns.”

Actually, what the AHPRA said was that doctors shouldn't be spreading misinformation:

“any promotion of anti-vaccination statements or health advice which contradicts the best available scientific evidence or seeks to actively undermine the national immunisation campaign (including via social media) is not supported by National Boards and may be in breach of the codes of conduct and subject to investigation and possible regulatory action”.

As AHPRA said:

“The concerns raised about the practitioners related to the spreading of misinformation about Covid-19 or vaccination advice, including that the Covid-19 pandemic was fake, that the vaccination program was about government led mind control or in some instances representing that patients would develop cancer by having a vaccination administered,” she said.

“Legitimate discussion and debate, based on science is appropriate and necessary to progress our understanding and knowledge. The [March 9, 2021 position] statement does not prevent practitioners from having these discussions.”

So, in addition to being surprised that anyone with medical training would be anti-vaccine - and there were doctors telling people that vaccines were poisons etc - I'm also surprised that any doctor who actually read AHPRA's statement would conclude that they shouldn't raise concerns about adverse reactions in their patients. Particularly when the TGA actively monitors adverse reactions.

**Saitch** · 24th December 2022, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Tins

I am neither an epidemiologist nor a virologist ( I wonder how many of us are ) and am therefore loathe to comment on this thread, as any comment I make about the virus is merely uneducated opinion.

I am, however, something of a student of human nature, and one thing I have observed is just how divisive the subject of Covid is. The condescension and intolerance displayed towards those of differing opinions, particularly by those whose position here means they should know better, is manifest, and frankly disturbing.

I have argued previously that, due to it's political and almost religious nature, this topic is one that should be in CA. Nothing I have read here changes that opinion.

Civility costs nothing. Smug condescension seems to me to prove the user has no real argument.

I understand your reasoning here JT, but as I don't sample the brew in the CA cauldron (be like listening to talk back radio, wouldn't it i.e. waste of time), I need somewhere to get my Covid updates and theories from. I find this thread both interesting and amusing.

**101RRS** · 24th December 2022, 01:42 PM

Well I have a basic belief that with all its faults, the Australian medical system is trying to do its best by the Australian community - I would rather take their advice than the tin foil hat wearing whack jobs in society and on this forum.

I am 4 vaccinated and not had any side effects and all my family are vaccinated and had no major issues. I am lucky enough to not have had Covid.

My 94 yo old mother with some major health issues is 4x vaccinated and got covid last month and went onto anti virals immediately. She got sick but was over it in a few days and for her it was less severe than a cold she had (got from emergency in hospital) in August. Her 87 yo brother also go Covid in April and did not get any major symptoms.

I am sure that if both of them had got Covid back in 2020 they would both had died - it is only that they had their vaccinations as recommended by the medical system that has saved them.

I agree that the whack jobs are entitled to their views but I just wish they were a little less vocal in trying to disseminate their false information.

**Arapiles** · 24th December 2022, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by 101RRS

I agree that the whack jobs are entitled to their views but I just wish they were a little less vocal in trying to disseminate their false information.

Which raises an interesting question in relation to anti-vax doctors - are they obeying the medical stricture "first, do no harm"?

**discomatt69** · 25th December 2022, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by Arapiles

Which raises an interesting question in relation to anti-vax doctors - are they obeying the medical stricture "first, do no harm"?

The same could be said about the doctors who have been silenced about their concerns and put their career first and stay silent

**Arapiles** · 25th December 2022, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by discomatt69

The same could be said about the doctors who have been silenced about their concerns and put their career first and stay silent

The point is that doctors weren't "silenced" - they were warned to not say, for example, that the vaccine causes cancer. And there's no evidence that anyone was in fact silenced.

You'd have to wonder if there isn't a whiff of solipsism about these claims by Dr Phelps - she and her wife got sick so there must be a big problem, right? And then she explains the lack of evidence that it is a widespread problem by saying, well, the doctors must've been intimidated into silence and didn't report all these cases - but there are no doctors actually saying so.

**discomatt69** · 26th December 2022, 07:20 AM

one of many, facts not opinions on what is/was the case

AstraZeneca vaccine: Doctors complain of ‘gag’ over COVID-19 vaccine

**NavyDiver** · 26th December 2022, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by discomatt69

one of many, facts not opinions on what is/was the case

AstraZeneca vaccine: Doctors complain of ‘gag’ over COVID-19 vaccine

Odd- I heard a lot of Doctors loudly on those topics- Some were not really infectious disease experts and one or two were not really Medical Doctors at all

what to inject sheep wormer you can find many loud experts

A medical news paper or three had several stories about fact V fiction. Links to them if your interested- lots of fun

The Medical Republic | News and analysis for Australian GPs

Australian Doctor Listing | AusDoc (front page has Hobart DOC and Covid) Look on tweeter for his yarn?

Medical Observer Listing | AusDoc
Last one article on own goal doctors at present "dealing with the ignorance of the DIY diagnosis"

Cannot tell you how often we get told what it was when booking people to see their Doctor that find a far more mundane issue diagnosed by the Doctor with referrals to Medical specialists, pathologist and radiologist added only some of time

**Tote** · 22nd February 2023, 07:57 AM

It seems that Navy might have some support in the scientific community over his banging on about airborne pathogens and air purifiers.....

COVID: How scientists are protecting themselves

Regards,
Tote

**p38arover** · 22nd February 2023, 08:04 AM

My wife and I had our 5th vax yesterday.

Thread: Covid Mk ll

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