Thread: Home Brew Penetrant Mix for a Seized Engines

Originally Posted by Tins

Temora? Were the Spitfires there then?

Hello Tins,

Yes, Temora Aviation Museum (Temora Aviation Museum - Home of Australia’s Historic Ex-military Aircraft) and home of Warbirds Downunder (Warbirds Downunder Airshow 2024 Temora) over various previous years and to be repeated again in 2024.

It was also the home of Paleface Adios the 'Temora Tornado'. Oh yes, I am writing about a trotting horse. See Paleface Adios | Monument Australia (accessed 19th of May 2023).

Kind regards
Lionel

Hello All,

I suppose we are entering into a discussion of when an engine is interpreted as being seized. Is it when the engine is stuck - totally resistant to movement - even when a lever of some time is utilised to attempt rotation of the flywheel or the crank bolt. Or is 'seized' when a motor is too tight for the starter motor to easily turn the motor over?

The motor started as as not being able to moved even a smidgeon. Then two weeks ago I took the injectors out and poured a 50/50 diesel & lanolin penetrant down the injector holes. I cleaned out the flywheel threads and bought some new 3/8 UNC high tensile bolts. I also bought a metre of 16 x 50 flat steel bar and drilled in two holes so the bolts could fit through the bar and fix the bar to the flywheel. After a week of soaking I used a lump hammer and with mild force struck the end of the bar down and then upwards an alternate blow at a time. Once some movement had occurred I left the bores to soak some more. After an hour or so I kept using mild blows in the normal direction of rotation. I wound up getting two full rotations. More penetrant was added and the bores were left to soak overnight. The next day using the bar and lump hammer I was able to tap the motor around through to the point where I could strong up and leg brace the motor around through full revolutions.

The bores were topped up with more diesel lanolin mix and left to soak throughout last week. I hooked up a battery and tried the starter motor again. The start motor was able to turn the motor about 30 mm each crank. Today with the aid of a 1500 mm by 50 mm by 25 square hollow section I could get at least 10 complete rotations. Unfortunately when I used the starter motor again to turn the motor through completer revolutions it still did the 30 mm travel. The starter motor could not free spin the engine.

This morning I bought some molasses. I tried the 50/50 diesel and molasses mix. Even with vigorous stirring an shaking the two would not blend. I found mostly empty 5 litre bottle of Shock Treatment degreaser that had approximately 200 millilitres of diluted degreaser and put a litre of molasses and litre of diesel. Bingo = there must have been enough Shock Treatment left in the 5 litre bottle to breakdown the molasses' surface tension. The resultant batch of penetrant goodness was then poured down the bores. I did a second batch up and because all the diluted Shock Treatment had been used I added about 200 millilitres of lanolin penetrant and it too broke down the molasses so that it could mix with the diesel. If a one week soak of the molasses, lanolin and diesel mix do not work it will be 'off with it's head!'

So is a motor seized when it is totally stuck, or when it is too tight for the starter motor to to turn the motor over?

Kind regards
Lionel

Lionel, I think the head needs to come off to properly assess the damage to the bore(s). They will require a hone, at minimum, otherwise you'll end up with broken rings.

Originally Posted by V8Ian

Lionel, I think the head needs to come off to properly assess the damage to the bore(s). They will require a hone, at minimum, otherwise you'll end up with broken rings.

Hello Ian,

Yes, I reckon you are right. I have been reluctant to take the head off because this engine was bought as a good running motor. However, it has sat idle in the shipping container for over 2 years. Prior to storing the motor I made sure that all possible areas of water ingress were sealed off. Then I pressure washed the outside of the motor. Either some water did find its way in has had plenty of time to do damage. Or perhaps the 'good runner' may have been a bit of an exaggeration, or it might have been a good runner years before I bought it. So I have been working on the 'good' motor in the hope that it would not take much tinkering to come 'good'. Yes, there is a big river in Egypt called ... "de Nile"!

The other motor is the one that was bought seized. Taken out of a truck and then inadvertently left out in the open without any entrances sealed off. By the time the previous owner got back to the motor it was too late. Today, I took the injectors out of the known as seized motor and poured the molasses/diesel/lanolin mix down through the injector holes. I will take the head off the known to be seized motor as a practice run for the 'good' motor.

I have a third already mostly disassembled motor that I mostly bought because it was a job lot with the T34 gearbox that I wanted. Fingers crossed between the three I will be able to get one good one running. Oh the 'good' motor is definitely the newest one. Oh, overall I am pretty disappointed - either because I introduced water into the 'good' motor when I pressure cleaned it - or the motor was not bought as exactly described. Either way .... Bugger!!!!!!!!

One lesson learnt - even if it was not the culprit - do not pressure clean a motor unless it can be turned upside down and then drained. Then run until it stays at operation temperature for a significant time. Or once pressure cleaned disassemble the motor ready for a rebuild. Do not pressure wash a motor - regardless of how well sealed you think it is - then leave it sitting in a storage place for a couple of years. This is a recipe for disappointment! Oh and the cost of more parts like head gaskets even if it only needs a light hone... or more money for worse scenarios. All totally avoidable ... did I write 'BUGGER' before!

Kind regards
Lionel

Condensation can kill a stored engine.

Originally Posted by V8Ian

Condensation can kill a stored engine.

Do tell. :0(

A couple of years ago the big Perkins engine was the only one that I did not fill the bores with diesel and lanolin after it was pressure cleaned. Admittedly, the other engines were petrol ones and spark plugs are easily removable objects. The engines were drained of oil and then turned upside down on an engine stand after they were pressure cleaned. They were then left overnight upside down. The next day they were turned back the right way. Then the bores were filled with the diesel/lanolin mix. After that the spark plugs were put back in place. The Perkins is way too big to put on any one of my engine stands. Lesson learnt in accordance to my prior avenue of attaining knowledge - the hard way!

Kind regards
Lionel

Hello All,

Well no go with the latest magic potion. The motor is turning over with the lever more easily. However, the starter motor still fails to be able to turn the flywheel.

So ... "off with its head"

I have two Perkins Workshop Manuals. One gives a pretty clear list of instructions and even a diagram of what sequence to tighten and loosen the head bolts. The other workshop manual just has "take the head off" . Both are genuine Perkins Workshop Manuals. I am glad I do not just have the second one I mentioned. Hmmm...now that bit of information in the second manual was very helpful and insightful ... NOT!

Kind regards
Lionel

Hello Lionel

I haven't read through the entire thread, but if you can turn the engine through 720 degrees with a metre long bar then you should be able to turn it with the starter.

All i have been able to glean is that it is a large Perkins, if so, then it's possible that the starter might be a 24 volt unit?. Worth a check.