D3 offroad

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Originally Posted by crossy

Just how far into the D3 brains can you get with the canbus ?

ie: can you customise and over-ride body / suspension stuff ?? It would be cool to actually regain complete control of a D3 beastie.

canbus has been around in industry for quite a few years now, someone must have some d3 hacks ?

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A company called Matzker in Germany makes an overide system for about $4000 that allows you to manually acheive emergency extended mode and stay at any height at any speed.

However, there has been reports of dudes having this fitted and going around off road at emergency extended height too much and damaging the air bags.



(note the levels of height: Access, Normal, Off-Road (all normally user selectable); Extended (not user selectable. The car will enter this if it belly's out) and Emergency Extended (when in Extended put foot on brake and hold up level for 5 secs))

I've been watching this thread with interest and some amusement :)

From what I've seen of them they are sensational off road, and I don't doubt that they are better than a stock fender.

Electronics is excellent and definitely makes things more reliable. The difficulty is that if something fails it can be difficult or impossible to fault fix. For this reason, if remote area touring I would invest in a rovacom light (or whatever works on the d3) so I could at least read and re-set fault codes if they arose.

I think this is also a problem with the defender, so much so that I'm going to be investing in a rovacom light with a group of friends for exactly this reason. We know the weak points of the fender now as it's been out a while. This familiarity will come with the D3 as time rolls by.

I'm afraid the killer for me personly is just the fact that I reckon they are a jewel. The fact that I couldn't turn the hose on the inside of the car would be a real concern to me. I'm a car polisher.. and if I start with a jewel I keep it that way. With the fender I can just lift the rubber mats and turn the hose on it. :)

The other killer for me is the price. While we could stretch to one (pov pack), I couldn't bring myself to inflict on one what is to happen with our fender next year. (2 month remote area trip) If neither of these are an issue for you then I reckon go for it! I think they rock. :D

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If neither of these are an issue for you then I reckon go for it! I think they rock. :D

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Well put ............


Cheers,

Gordon

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Originally Posted by drivesafe

I’ll be down your way sometime next year, I want to get some video of train operations through the Rat Holes, so if you don’t mind slumming, I’ll have the RR.

Cheers.

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No worries, there is heaps to explore in the way of trains and train history around lithgow, Zig Zag springs to mind, plus the glow worm tunnels, and the museum in lithgow so you would be more than welcome to stay at my place, we might even be able to organise a weekend BBQ so you can meet a few of the guys and get some 4wding in. Matt

Hi Ace, it’s been thirty years now but I was based at and worked trains out of Lithgow for about 6 months, back in 1975. Plus my Delec ( Enfield ) rosters had me up there on a fairly regular basis till I transferred out of Sydney.

I was also a member of the Zig Zag for a very short time, while I was at Lithgow depot.

I wasn’t into 4x4ing back then and only went where ever my Charger would take me, so I’d love a guided tour some time.

Cheers

l have read the thread with interest

most people live in Oz dont live in the outback

the great majority of people who are going to buy a D3 wouldn't live outside the metropolitan areas of Oz

the majority of D3 driving time wouldnt be more than couple of hours outside the metropolitan areas of Oz

Majority of people dont have the ability tools or experience to repair a vehicle of any make type or description or technology

Anyone who can afford a D3 will take out comprehensive insurance, would be likely to have RAC breakdown service cover and would be covered by LR Road side assist so besides some inconvenience of having a total vehicle failure on there once a year out back safari it isnt going to be a major issue for them and believe it or not total failures happen to every make and model l know of and l regular speak to people who have had to wait couple days for parts to be shipped to them etc.

So in my mind the arguments against the D3 are based on some pretty weird assumptions of 100% reliability and complete robustness which simply doesn't exist.

The real question is does the D3 have a higher failure rate than other comparable/type manufactured vehicle and so far l dont think there is any reliable statistics to say it has.

if l had a lazy $80,000 to spend

cartm58
1993 range rover

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Originally Posted by cartm58

l have read the thread with interest

most people live in Oz dont live in the outback

the great majority of people who are going to buy a D3 wouldn't live outside the metropolitan areas of Oz

the majority of D3 driving time wouldnt be more than couple of hours outside the metropolitan areas of Oz

Majority of people dont have the ability tools or experience to repair a vehicle of any make type or description or technology

Anyone who can afford a D3 will take out comprehensive insurance, would be likely to have RAC breakdown service cover and would be covered by LR Road side assist so besides some inconvenience of having a total vehicle failure on there once a year out back safari it isnt going to be a major issue for them and believe it or not total failures happen to every make and model l know of and l regular speak to people who have had to wait couple days for parts to be shipped to them etc.

So in my mind the arguments against the D3 are based on some pretty weird assumptions of 100% reliability and complete robustness which simply doesn't exist.

The real question is does the D3 have a higher failure rate than other comparable/type manufactured vehicle and so far l dont think there is any reliable statistics to say it has.

if l had a lazy $80,000 to spend

cartm58
1993 range rover

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You're right of course - most people in Australia live as they always have in the capital cities and nearby, and don't venture far from them.

But I think you are missing the point as well - while any car can have a total failure as you correctly point out, a large proportion of non-electronic types of failures can be repaired, if not on the spot by the driver, at least by any qualified mechanic (or even unqualified) in the nearest town or perhaps even station, even if they have to wait for parts. Electronic problems which can only be diagnosed by a dealer, compounded with Landrovers lack of dealers, means that the few days repairs turn into shipping the vehicle perhaps halfway across Australia to a dealer to diagnose the problem - which may in fact only require a trivial repair. There was a recent case noted in this forum where a Defender in NW WA had to be shipped back to Perth for a faulty throttle potentiometer to be diagnosed - it took about a fortnight to get the vehicle back due to shipping problems. The increased use of electronics in the D3 have undoubtedly improved its capability, and almost certainly its reliability, but have also increased the possibility of faults that can disable the vehicle not just for days but for weeks in remote areas, even if it is not a serious problem. As I said above, this is not an inevitable result of electronics, but is the unintended result of making the vehicle serviceable only by dealers plus the long distances between these in this country.

As an example of a similar effect in the past, the lack of service capabilities in remote areas was one of the factors that slowed the adoption of diesels in offroad vehicles in Australia - these remained rare until well into the seventies, and part of the reason they are almost universally used today is that you can get diesel service virtually anywhere. Plus it has been realised that they really are a lot more reliable than petrol engines. (quite apart from fuel economy). I am confident that the same will happen to electronic systems in cars eventually, but I don't think we are there yet.

And of course, there is the cost - but wait a few years and there will be plenty on the market at affordable costs, almost all never used off bitumen. But whether we can afford to run them may be another matter - look at Ron's problems with his P38A. One hopes that Landrover learned from that how to make them more repairable.

John

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Originally Posted by drivesafe

Hi Ace, it’s been thirty years now but I was based at and worked trains out of Lithgow for about 6 months, back in 1975. Plus my Delec ( Enfield ) rosters had me up there on a fairly regular basis till I transferred out of Sydney.

I was also a member of the Zig Zag for a very short time, while I was at Lithgow depot.

I wasn’t into 4x4ing back then and only went where ever my Charger would take me, so I’d love a guided tour some time.

Cheers

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No worries, would be happy to give you a tour. Matt

Hi John and others.
Yes that was my Defender with the prob. in WA and it was either ship it to the nearest dealer over 500klms further North away from home, or as we decided, luckily, back to Perth which was over 1200klms.
LR was good about that and included the camper as well and I'm still talking to them about what other costs they may cover.
I've passed on forumites concerns about servicing or diagnosing faults when anywhere except the large metro areas and that has been raised as a valid point worthy of some discussion.
Whether that will lead to anything being done maybe through Ford dealers or not I doubt, but if enough complaints are made eventually it may get through to them.
The vehicle never missed a beat before and hasn't since but that doesn't fill me with confidence for the future when travelling away from home.
Newman is a significant town in WA and if your stuck there with no real assistance available from the locals, what chance have we in more remote areas?
Alan H.

Any vehicle built mid 1990's onwards regardless of brand of manufacturer is expensive to repair compared to earlier generation vehicles petrol or diesel variety.

Land Rover dealer/service network is a disadvantage compared to Toyota coverage but you take that into account when your making a purchase of a vehicle.

Land Rover also takes into account the expense cost of shipping vehicles under warranty in deciding its network coverage.

Its clear that Land Rover is not in the market of competing for agriculture/mining operators by the type of vehicles its making and their level of sophisication it is concentrating on the luxury consumer market.

Its dealer network reflects its market.

If you can afford to buy a $80,000 plus vehicle, you can afford to keep it in fuel, you can afford the insurance premiums, the road side assist coverage, the shipping it back to the dealer.

Reality is D3 is competing against BMW, Volvo, Mercedes its a luxury vehicle primarily, its a very good off road vehicle but its not expected to live its life out in the wildneress though it may occassionally travel there