Thread: D3 offroad

Originally Posted by Frenchie

Cars, like everything else these days, are designed to be thrown away after a few years when they become obsolete. Sort of like your PC really, when it was new it was a wonderful, fast, whizz bang machine but after a year or two looks dated, there's faster and better things on the market, then one of the compnents dies so you chuck the whole thing away and buy another one.

You're right, of course, at least in a some senses. But there are differences - for a start, the computer costs around one tenth of what the car does (I suppose you CAN pay as much as a tenth of a D3 for a computer?), but perhaps more importantly, the new computer really is a MAJOR improvement on the old one. Even if you don't NEED to change your software or do anything different, at least you CAN.
In the last thirty years there has been no or little increase in the speed you can drive - in fact the reverse, speed limits have dropped, if anything in most places, and in any case almost every car would travel at the speed limit thirty years ago. If you look at off road capability, certainly the D3 is more capable than the SIII, but the difference is at the margins and beyond the experience of most off road drivers.
So what are we getting when we are supposed to throw away the old car and get a new one? A marked improvement in comfort, a small increase in safety, a questionable improvement in reliability, better fuel economy, longer service interval - in exchange for a big capital cost, much higher maintenance and repair costs. And this is comparing a SIII and a D3. The difference between a D3 and whatever replaces it is going to be far smaller, but the cost still very high.

You are right, this is the way the world is going, at least at present, but for high priced goods involving large energy and environmental costs, it may well change in the future.

John

Originally Posted by dm_td5

I'm sorry but off-road in Southern Sydney is hardly the beyond the black stump.

True, but difficult terrain is difficult terrain wherever it's located.

I was just confirming that there are satisfied D3 owners happy to take their vehicles offroad and into the rought stuff. (those photos are nothing compared to the rest of the track - I was too busy trying to get my own vehicle through to get any other pics of the D3, especially as he was leading for a fair part of the way!)

Originally Posted by dobbo

Any chance of getting hime up here for a day?

I don't know him personally, I think he's a member of the Sunnyside Up 4WD club. Maybe you could join them on one of their trips and see it in action?

Young Haggis over in WA is leading the way, competing (very successfully) in his D3,,
and if I assume(!) rightly, might even get serious next year

Ah, "young" - I like that - although maybe it reflects the level of maturity I present in my posts?

Yup, we did pretty well in the comps this year (1st overall in class A), and I've taken the D3 out into the sticks and back without drama. So to my mind, there is no doubting the car's ability, which is what this thread was about in the first place. I don't think anyone can effectively argue to the contrary.

With respect to reliability, I guess we just have to wait and see. The current software loaded into the vehicles maintains a _very_ conservative level of performance, compared to what is possible with the underlying mechanics (hardware?). No doubt LR themselves are playing it safe until the D3 has a few years of real-world testing.

Software and/or electrical systems malfunction on these vehicles _rarely_ will leave the car stranded. It might be a slow or uncomfortable trip back to civilisation, but you'll generally get there. So as long as the mechanics of these vehicles proves to be above the standards of reliability found in older (or other model) 4WDs, the chances of being stranded are no greater than in a Defender/Disco/Rangie, with their penchant for breaking axles, CV's diffs etc. In other words, not likely unless you are being stupid.

Like any new vehicle, I think the D3's main drawback is the difficulty of modification.

Cheers,

Gordon

The Mackay Land Rover Club is hosting the Queensland Corrobee (QAFWD) next year and we were doing a recce over the weekend on one of the tracks that we will use for the event. Up until April I had a double locked Xtreme with ECU and intercooler upgrade and suspension works and I also still have a Defender ute with a 1998 Disco 3.9 V8 and auto transplant in it,rear locker and suspension mods. I have run each of these vehicles over the track we were on over the weekend a number of times and although the lockers have not been needed, I certainly spent a fair amount of time in low range in both vehicles which are very capable. I replaced the Xtreme with a TDV6 SE Disco 3 and have been gradually sorting out what the Disco3 will do. Apart fom one steep hill with deep washouts where low range was selected, the only settings used on the weekend was the offroad height setting and I disabled DSC. Places where low range in both Defenders was required were just eaten by the D3 in high range without terrain response. I'm not saying that a Disco 3 is better than a Defender off road, because there are situations where the clearance of a modified Defender would leave the Disco 3 sitting, but the weekend proved to me that the Disco 3 is one very capable off road vehicle. My confidence in, and respect for the D3 grows each time I take it bush. They are not just 'pretty' town cars but very comfortable four wheel drives that don't compromise capability. Just a pity about all those lantana scratches.

I have seen Gordon's D3 in action and I maintain that with a decent set of tyres (and a decent driver) they are more capable in stock form than a Defender.

I can't afford one, at least not with the specs that I would want, but if I could I would seriously think about it.

Originally Posted by DiscoDave

True, but difficult terrain is difficult terrain wherever it's located.

I was just confirming that there are satisfied D3 owners happy to take their vehicles offroad and into the rought stuff. (those photos are nothing compared to the rest of the track - I was too busy trying to get my own vehicle through to get any other pics of the D3, especially as he was leading for a fair part of the way!)

My point was not the difficulty of the terrain, rather the remoteness to any servicing aids or assistance should something go wrong. I read things like the mention of a D3 on the French Line and think thats fantastic, but you certainly would want to know everything is A1 on the vehicle because the nearest diagnostic computer is a long way off and its not like a Tdi or earlier where a fault can be diagnosed with general mechanical knowledge.

As I said I think the D3 is breaking new ground with all the electronics etc its just they are ahead of the rest and the support is definitely not there.

So if you strip your diff crown wheel in the middle of the Harvey forests, or your axle tube snaps in the middle of the Canning Stock Route, or you lose all drive halfway to Gascoyne Junction, what do _you_ do?? [All real examples]

In other words, what's your point? All cars can break down beyond the ability of the driver to fix them. Have you any evidence that the D3 is more prone to that than other Rovers? And if so, is that because the average driver today hasn't kept up with the technology, or because the vehicle is inherently more unreliable?

I don't see how you have any evidence to back your position other than "oh, it's different".

Cheers,

Gordon

Originally Posted by gghaggis

So if you strip your diff crown wheel in the middle of the Harvey forests, or your axle tube snaps in the middle of the Canning Stock Route, or you lose all drive halfway to Gascoyne Junction, what do _you_ do?? [All real examples]

In other words, what's your point? All cars can break down beyond the ability of the driver to fix them. Have you any evidence that the D3 is more prone to that than other Rovers? And if so, is that because the average driver today hasn't kept up with the technology, or because the vehicle is inherently more unreliable?

I don't see how you have any evidence to back your position other than "oh, it's different".

Cheers,

Gordon

Stripped crownwheel - take half axles out and drive as 2wd.
Axle tube snaps - welding job, nearest town or station
Lose all drive - find what broke and send second vehicle for parts.

Electronic failure - truck vehicle to nearest test book - which may several thousand kilometres away, with the cutback of the dealer network. Note that the problem is NOT that the D3 is more prone to failure; in fact I doubt it is; and NOT that the average driver has not kept up with technology, but that the electronic parts of the car are designed so that problems can ONLY be found using proprietary software that is deliberately kept from the average owner (for a variety of reasons, including trying to tie the owner to dealers for servicing).

There is no inherent weakness with the use of electronics, but for use in areas remote from dealers, it should incorporate onboard diagnostics. There is no technical reason why this could not be available today on any new car, but don't hold your breath.

John