Thread: Holden v's Ford

Originally Posted by mcrover

Isnt the 9" built by Borg Warner anyway?

No, buy ford

My stepfather did his apprentaship through ford in the late 60's and he always told me the 351 was based off the 350 block thats about all i know ill question him more when i see him
Cheers Greg

Originally Posted by mcrover

Isnt the 9" built by Borg Warner anyway?

Your so funny damo

ive allways wonted to put a boss 351 in an xy,keep it nice and standard on the outside,my dream car
Greg

Originally Posted by Tank

The 68 holden was a Opel Rekord, designed in Chermany, all of the rest you have back to front, Regards Frank.

Oldsmobile Tornado

HK Monaro


It boasted potent performance and looked every inch the part with its long, wide body, flared wheel arches and sweeping roofline (modelled on the Oldsmobile Tornado).

In GTS form, the Monaro sported black rally stripes, unique wheel trims, paint finishes and a tail panel strip that replicated a full-width tail light.


When British migrant James Alexander Holden arrived in Adelaide in 1852, he set about establishing a business as a leather worker and saddle-maker. In 1872 he set up a partnership with Birks, only to have it disolved 3 years later.

Following that ill-fated partnership, Holden decided to bring his son into the business in 1879, and then allowed Henry Frost to join as Junior Partner in 1885; Adolf Frost was well respected carriage builder, and the company was soon to become "Holden and Frost".

In 1910 Holden & Frost began trimming motor vehicles and in 1914 they built their first one off car body for an imported Lancia chassis. Larger contracts followed but ironically the first major contract was for Dodge bodies (a later competitor).

By 1917 the Australian government had placed an import embargo on complete vehicles, the First World War having almost entirely involved Britain's industry, and German U Boat Captains were doing their best to ensure that very few cargo ships leaving North America reached their intended destination.

These conditions, combined with the need to save valuable cargo space, restricted imports to chassis and forced local vehicle agents to look to local firms to provide the bodies. In 1919 Edward Wheeldon Holden registered "Holden's Motor Body Builders" as a separate company specialising in car bodies.

At the time they built bodies for Overland, Chevrolet, Durant, Hupmobile and Dodge, and by 1923 they were producing over 12,000 bodies per year. In 1924 "Holden's Motor Body Builders" became the sole Australian body builder for General Motors vehicles and had an output of over 22,000 bodies (over 11,000 for GM) in 65 different body styles.

The famous "Lion and Stone" symbol was designed in 1928 by George Rayner Hoff, and represented the legend of man's invention of the wheel. It was subsequently fitted to all Holden bodies and, although undergoing minor changes over the years, remains to this day.

During the 'Great Depression' in 1930, production fell from 34,000 units per year to a mere 1651 and, in 1931, General Motors were able to buy the entire Holden's Motor Body Builders and merge it with their North American operation to form General Motors - Holdens.

This move was not entirely motivated by taking advantage of the company when it was at an all time low but was mainly occasioned by the Australian government freezing the currency so that money couldn't leave the country during the depression.

The money to pay GM in the United States for the previously imported chassis was trapped in Australia and so was used to finance the buy out which in part took the form of swapping the ordinary shares held by 1550 Australian shareholders in Holdens Motor Body Builders for 561,000 6% 1 pound preference shares (ie 6% of the value of their shares each year) in the new company.

This made the paid up capital of the new company 561,000 pounds Australian capital (37% of the total) and 965,800 pound U.S. capital (63% of the total).

In addition there was tension between the Australian operation and the United States with management in the United States complaining "Amazing people these Australians; they just won't do as they're told" (Inness Randolph head of General Motors Australia to Larry Hartnett in 1929) and a merger/takeover was also a way to solve this little problem.

In 1934 Larry Hartnett (later Sir Laurence Hartnett) was sent to Australia by GM as Managing Director of the Australian company with a directive to either make it profitable or close it down.

Fortunately Hartnett respected the resourceful nature of the Australian operation and stated "The economies achieved by Holden's at Woodville put them, in many ways, years ahead of the rest of the world in manufacturing techniques. The resourcefulness and initiative of the Australians in this industry is beyond praise."

By 1935 the world economy had strengthened and under the leadership of Larry Hartnett GM-H lifted production to 23,129 bodies and a profit of 650,000 pounds. The company also introduced the "Sloper" to the world which was the fore runner of the hatchback and led the rest of the world in producing the first all steel bodies.

In 1936 Larry Hartnett began planning the complete production of a "wholly Australian car", however another World War intervened, with the (Menzies) government of the time putting these plans on hold. After the war the Government asked for proposals from any local company for production of a complete car - and General Motors Holdens were the only company to reply.

On September 20, 1944 Sir Laurence Hartnett and Mr Jack Horn of General Motors - Holdens made a presentation entitled "Australia - GM's Performance and Results - Manufacture of Complete Motor-Cars in Australia" to the Executive Post War Planning Committee of General Motors in New York. This meeting gained approval in principal for GM-H to commence the process of designing and building an Australian car.

A major production which was rehearsed for 3 weeks in New York and involved 18 stenographers, 7 photographers and photographic reproduction men, 2 statisticians plus experts from GM finance, materials and manufacturing divisions all with the aim of convincing the committee of approving the project in principal, it was finally approved in November 1944.

But it almost did not eventuate, with the US deciding that it would not invest in Australia (despite making hefty profits from it's Australian operation) and only when the Commonwealth Bank came up with £2,500,000 pounds and the Bank of Adelaide came up with the balance of £500,000 pounds did the project finally get off the ground.

When the first Holden (designated the 48/215) went on sale in 1948, the list price was the equivalent of $1330. To this the buyer had to add 'on road' charges including registration and insurance plus $136 in sales tax. Sales tax has played a big part in the price of Holdens through the years.

It has been as low as 10 per cent and as high as 40 per cent, and in 1990, a new high of 50 per cent was briefly imposed on the Caprice because it was priced above a 'luxury car' limit set by the federal government. Inflation too has played a big part.

When the VN Commodore was launched in 1988 exactly four decades after the first Holden - it cost $20,014 including sales tax. That was nearly 14 times as expensive as a 1948 Holden, but by 1988 the average male wage had risen to $491.

Statistically speaking, that meant that a worker needed to complete 41 weeks on the job to buy a new VN. In 1948 the average male earned $15.60 and would have had to work around 94 weeks to pay the tax-inclusive price of a new Holden. It's not quite that simple, of course.

These wage figures are gross and the average worker now pays a higher percentage of income tax than in 1948. Then again, the average working week is now shorter and credit is easier to obtain, making car ownership more accessible to a greater number of people. Two-income households are also much more common. Even if the woman of 1948 was holding down a similar job to her husband, she would be getting around 25 per cent less money.

The VP Commodore hit the market with the base sedan priced at $23,992 - an unimaginable figure by 1948 standards but highly competitive in 1991. Comparatively speaking, the Hoiden was never cheaper than in the early 19708, when an average wage-earner could buy a new Hoiden with just 25 weekly pay packets.

Through all the fluctuations, the cars themselves have become more sophisticated. If you compare the Holdens of the 1940s, '50s, '60s or '70s with today's models, an incredible amount of equipment is now standard that was then not even optional. As well as a plethora of luxury items, the modern Commodore has countless mechanical advantages and a higher standard of performance, handling and comfort. It is faster, quieter, more ergonomically efficient, smoother, roomier, better equipped, more robust, easier to drive and harder to steal.

Most importantly of all, today's car is considerably safer on two levels: keeping you out of an accident and protecting you if you are unfortunate enough to be in one. And although early Hoidens were considered advanced in their day, a car which required a service and oil change every 1600 kilometres just wouldn't sell today. Today, almost every generation X Australian would have owned or driven a Holden at some time and the company can rightfully claim to be 'Australia's Favourite Car'.

In fact, all but the Belmont was to inherit the "tail light strip styling" along the rear of the bootlid - after pressure from GM in the US.

The designers choose to increase the width of the mock tail lights in proportion to the status of the vehicle, and so it naturally increased in size depending on whether it was a Kingswood, Premier or Monaro.

Only the Monaro GTS had a full width strip, but unfortunately the Aussie sun was to quickly bleach away the red accents and reveal the fake tail light for what it was. Regardless, this was a far preferrable option to sticking with the Belmont's tail lights, that remained smaller than that of the insipid HB Torana of the time.

The standard Monaro was powered by a 3.05 litre 186 six-cylinder engine teamed with a column shift three-speed manual. Other engine choices included a higher-spec 186S six and an imported 5.0 litre 307 V8, matched with four-speed console mounted manual or two-speed Powerglide auto transmission. In fact, there were some 19 Monaro engine and transmission combinations, from the 161 2.6 litre right through to the awesome (for the time) 327 5.4 litre Chevrolet V8.

Although the car was destined to be a sales success, the Monaro also signalled to Ford the Generals clear intention that it would be a serious contender in production car racing - with the saying 'What wins on Sunday sells on Monday' being just as relevant in Australia as anywhere else in the world - perhaps even more so given the Aussie apetite for V8's.

It wasn't long before the racing Monaro made it's debut - and what a debut! - with a first race win by Tony Roberts and Bob Watson in a GTS 327 Monaro at the 1968 Sandown 3-hour enduro. That year, the Monaro caused a Ford blood bath at Mt. Panorama, sweeping all contenders aside with a 1-2-3 finish. First was the car of Bruce McPhee and Barry Mulholland (privateers), with Jim Palmer/Phil West coming second and Tony Roberts/Bob Watson coming in third place.

The Monaro had staked it's claim on the Mountain, but with Ford winning the year before (1967) it was billed as "The Decider" in 1969. The Monaro maintained it's winning form, when piloted to first position by Colin Bond and Tony Roberts. The GTHO of McPhee/Mulholland was always in close contention however, coming in 2nd place. And in third place was another Monaro, driven by Des West and a new up-coming driver, one Peter Brock, who had recently joined Harry Firths team.

The Ford verses Holden rivalry has never diminished.

Well this thread got everyone going

I thought it was as simple as

Holden/Ford
Waeco/Engel
Canon/Nikon
Nissan/Toyota (well maybe not these)


Martyn - who owns a Waeco, a Pentax, drives a Defender and suffers a Toyota for work.

Originally Posted by Bushie

Well this thread got everyone going

I thought it was as simple as

Holden/Ford
Waeco/Engel
Canon/Nikon
Nissan/Toyota (well maybe not these)


Martyn - who owns a Waeco, a Pentax, drives a Defender and suffers a Toyota for work.

We have a Waeco, a Sony, a Disco, 2 Toyotas, a Honda Accord and 3 Yamahas

I don't like either, Holden or Ford, they are mediocre cars at best.

Baz.

I realise bit off topic here but.

GO CRAIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yesterday was a brilliant race. All im gonna say 'bout Smolden. Murph you deserved that Black Flag