$600,000 Gtho

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Originally Posted by vnx205

I just found this:

In 1966, the mighty Mini Cooper S won Bathurst and filled the top nine places. A feat that remains unbeaten in 40 years. Since 1966, no naturally-aspirated four-cylinder vehicle has won the race either.

on this site
http://www.carpoint.com.au/car-review/1715122.aspx

I think it's correct.

None of your muscle cars ever managed that did they? :p

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well, the Mini-Copoper S was the Oz muscle car of its day. Used by police forces as a pursuit car. Ford built the Cortina GT500 as a Bathurst special and they were barely drivable on the road because the gear ratios were produced to suit Bathurst. They had an impossibly tall first gear and a very close ratio special box. driving them in traffic meant much clutch slipping. Mini-Cooper S were a mighty machine in their day and great fun to drive. I don't think I have driven anything else that would handle like them except a Hillman Imp GT.

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Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

I was at GM-H then. I was in the GM-H pit at Bathurst in 1972. We did not just build 200 of them. They were built and sold throughout the year. Batch build does not mean that 200+ went down the line one after the other, but over a period of a week or so, 200+ built along with the dealer orders and plant stock of all the the others. It was Cams and the FIA that made it necessary to build 200+ every time something was changed as they insisted that at least 200 identical had to be available for retail sale. That was not just a change to option XU1, but any change to the base model meant re-homologation. The GTS327 and GTS350 Monaros that won in 1968 and 1969 (1969, 7 of first ten places) were, as I stated, a regular production model that could be ordered any day from any Holden dealer. We even used to carry them in plant stock. As for Falcon GT's, they were built in considerable numbers, even supplied to the NSW police in Cambridge Blue and base model Falcon 500 trim. It was the GT-HO's, that if anything, could be called a Bathurst special, and even then the hype is not supported by their race record. Once again, journalistic bulls+&%t and a photo in Wheels Magazine of a speedo allegedly taken on the Hume highway has created an image. Just as journalistic bulls*&t and sensationalism killed the V8 Torana LJ & Chrysle 340TA Charger.

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so working at gmh has made you an authority on the production/marketing practices of ford and chrysler as well!
just a suggestion ,go pick up a copy of AMC :D
all these vehicles from this era are classic examples of australian muscle cars .
BUT IT JUST SO HAPPENS THAT GTHO FALCONS HAVE BECOME THE MOST VALUABLE AUSTRALIAN PRODUCED MUSCLE CARS EVER BUILT:D
now i don't know why this is the case but they are just more valuable than holdens/chryslers and you can't argue with that!:D:p:D

and I'd rather have an XU1 or a hatchback A9X over some nancy boy Ford crap :p

But there's no way I'd pay the silly money people are getting for them these days, and if I could buy a road only play thing, I'm guessing it would be something like a new little Lotus Elise. Out drive, out handle, out steer absolutely anything from now, let alone that era.
The cars from back then are pretty awful to drive. A cousin had an XA GT that I had a lend of for a few days about ten years ago and it was bloody awful. The toploader 'box made an R380 feel like a Hewland. The steering was nearly as bad as my then F100, the brakes didn't stop, etc, etc.

And just for giggles worth, If I was to buy a real muscle car from that era, I've always lusted after a Lamborghini Miura S, although an ex-Lambo mechanic once told me they were unbelievably loud and hot inside, and the handling would kill you (and it nearly did him in) .......

[QUOTE originally posted by rick130

And just for giggles worth, If I was to buy a real muscle car from that era, I've always lusted after a Lamborghini Miura S, although an ex-Lambo mechanic once told me they were unbelievably loud and hot inside, and the handling would kill you (and it nearly did him in) .......[/QUOTE]

but thats just not australian :p lol:p

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Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

I was at GM-H then. I was in the GM-H pit at Bathurst in 1972. We did not just build 200 of them. They were built and sold throughout the year. Batch build does not mean that 200+ went down the line one after the other, but over a period of a week or so, 200+ built along with the dealer orders and plant stock of all the the others. It was Cams and the FIA that made it necessary to build 200+ every time something was changed as they insisted that at least 200 identical had to be available for retail sale. That was not just a change to option XU1, but any change to the base model meant re-homologation. The GTS327 and GTS350 Monaros that won in 1968 and 1969 (1969, 7 of first ten places) were, as I stated, a regular production model that could be ordered any day from any Holden dealer. We even used to carry them in plant stock. As for Falcon GT's, they were built in considerable numbers, even supplied to the NSW police in Cambridge Blue and base model Falcon 500 trim. It was the GT-HO's, that if anything, could be called a Bathurst special, and even then the hype is not supported by their race record. Once again, journalistic bulls+&%t and a photo in Wheels Magazine of a speedo allegedly taken on the Hume highway has created an image. Just as journalistic bulls*&t and sensationalism killed the V8 Torana LJ & Chrysle 340TA Charger.

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I have to aggree with Brian for the most part. It must have been a hell of a buzz to be in the pits in 72 Brian.
As much as I love Aussie muscle cars, they basically were just souped up shopping trollies. Nothing wrong with that and it was the upgrades that made them legendary. I am a Holden man but would love a GT an E49 a Cooper S etc etc to.
The fact is a replica can be built as good if not better than the original supports Brians comments. There are some replicas I have seen that could not be picked without seeing plate numbers.
Its a shame as what were average working persons cars are now becoming rich dipsticks cars.

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Originally Posted by Outback 1

[QUOTE

And just for giggles worth, If I was to buy a real muscle car from that era, I've always lusted after a Lamborghini Miura S, although an ex-Lambo mechanic once told me they were unbelievably loud and hot inside, and the handling would kill you (and it nearly did him in) .......

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but thats just not australian :p lol:p[/quote]

But as nice as that is, it is not a muscle car, but an exotic or sports car. The whole category of muscle cars is based around mass produced, budget level performance cars that the average person could buy.

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Originally Posted by DRanged

Fastest 4 door production car in the world at the time of its manufacture. I'd like to see a new FPV GT or Holdens equivalent do 1000km straight out of the factory around Bathurst with Mr Moffat pushing the pedals.

I'd bet both cars would drop their guts before reaching half way.

Justin

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You must be joking, do you really believe that the GT's (or any other make, for that matter) that raced at Bathurst were straight production line cars, I nearly PMSL when I read that.
The Factory race cars for instance, cost twice the street GT's price, were rated (very conservatively) at 380hp+ (and in race trim well over 400hp) against the street GT at 300hp, the race cars were stronger (suspension, body), lighter and better built. These race cars were only available to selected Racers and not to the public.
I owned a 71 XY GT from new and I owned a BA GT 2003 MY (#564) from new and as far as handling, performance and reliability the BA was so far ahead in all repects that it is not a fair or relevant comparison.
The XY GT had a crap clutch, that was replaced twice under warranty, handled not much better than a standard Taxi and the brakes were dangerous, considering the speed the car would do. The XY GT went thru fuel like a Top Rail Dragster (City) at about 10mpg (approx. 40L/100klm), 15mpg on a long run, they needed that 36 gallon fuel tank. It took me nearly a year to sell the XY GT, no takers, traded it in for 1/3 of it's worth.
The BA GT was the best car I've ever owned, performance and handling was brilliant, fuel economy was great 15L/100klm city, 11L/100klm country, would easily reach speed limited speed of 250klm/h.
The 4WD bug bit hard again and I moved back to the off-road scene again.
The current and future prices of XY GT's is high because it is a Genuine collectors car, it was in it's time the Fastest Four Door Car in the World, a Fact, no Holden, Toyrana, or Valiant can ever claim that title, so they will Never be worth what an XY GT is, never, Regards Frank.

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Originally Posted by BigJon

Probably stolen to order for a criminal type that will keep it locked up in his private garage where no one else can see it. That sort of person just wants things for themselves and they don't care if no one else even knows that they have them.

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The car would have been stolen to rebirth a GT wreck and then sell as an original, a mate had his GT Replica stolen out of a locked Garage that had a Mini with no wheels (on blocks) parked hard against the door, with a Holden 1 tonner parked behind the Mini all about 10 ft. from his bedroom, the only part on the GT replica that was not Genuine GT was the Compliance plate and the Chassis number, same deal it would have been used to rebuild a wrecked GT and sold as genuine for heaps, Regards Frank.

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Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

I was in the Australian motor manufacturing industry at the time. All the muscle cars, GTS Monaros, Torana GTR's, E38 & E49 Chargers, Falcon GT's were all just the regular mass produced car with some extra cost options added. What did you think they were? Some sort of hand built exotic? The Falcon GT's were just a four door sedan with engine, gearbox, suspension and brake changes, many of which you could have had by ticking the boxes on an order form at the dealers. The Monaro GTS327's and GTS350's which flogged the Falcon GT's at Bathurst were a regular production model, code 81837 which ould be ordered and bought any day at any Holden dealer. Torana GTR model 82911 with production option XU1 were batch built to ensure 200 were built for CAMS/FIA homologation purposes. They were still just a Torana two door built on the same line at the same time as the family cars they were sourced from. And, just to rub it in, I recall a 202 cubic inch Torana beating the 351 cubic inch Falcons at Bathurst. In fact, the Falcon GT's only seemed to be able to win aagainst cars with much smaller engines, and not all of the time.

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And what engine did the original Torana (Vauxhall) have in it, a piddling little 4 pot, the only way Holden could get over Ford was to shove a big 6 or V8 into what was basically a small 4 cyl. car, if Holden was so great why didn't they race the HQ against the Fords, yeh a full size four door family sedan against the full size four door family Falcon, when Ford did the dirty trick by bringing in the Sierras against Holden (Opel), holden and their fans screamed like little girls, Holdens have never played the game square, Regards Frank.

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Originally Posted by Tank

And what engine did the original Torana (Vauxhall) have in it, a piddling little 4 pot, the only way Holden could get over Ford was to shove a big 6 or V8 into what was basically a small 4 cyl. car, if Holden was so great why didn't they race the HQ against the Fords, yeh a full size four door family sedan against the full size four door family Falcon, when Ford did the dirty trick by bringing in the Sierras against Holden (Opel), holden and their fans screamed like little girls, Holdens have never played the game square, Regards Frank.

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Tank,
Yeah loyalties aside. A little Torana with a 186 was beaten by a Ford GT. As soon as the 202 went in the GTHO was beaten. More than twice the engine capacity, but only about a third bigger in size. Those are the facts. Then the A9X came along and Ford have not been able to compete consitently since.
The statement about bigger engine in to a smaller car is the most PW excuse I have heard. Fords also came out in a 6 cylinder. The Fords were a POS apart from straight line speed. Holden built cars that could handle. Imagine if they did both and the XU2 reached production. It would have been game over for Ford.
Technically you are right about fastest 4 door, but if we are comparing apples with apples and go by weight the Charger was faster over the quarter.
The problem with Ford supporters is they have no reason, just blind loyalty and can not accept the facts as they stand.
Yes Holden have been beaten by Ford and I accept that. Better car at the time.
The HQ was not an option at the time against the GT as was only just coming into production and never aimed at the racing market. The use of the torana was only supposed to be a gap filler until the new Monaro was launched, but proved so succesfull Holden continued the race program down this track.
I wont even go into the Sierra debate. That was the end of decent racing.
"Holden never played the game square". It is a competition and Holden used what resources it had, how is that not square. Ford did the same with the Sierras and still had to cheat. They never even came close to selling the required amount of cars in Australia that was required either. As said and proven in previous posts the Falcons were not an Aussie designed car at all either. Most Holdens were (early Toranas were not). At least Holden have remained commited to supporting motor racing here in Australia, not like Ford up and down support.
Do not get me wrong I like the GTs etc and have respect for them, but I dont have blinkers on otherwise I would be making simmilar silly statements about early Monaros, Toranas etc
;):)