Discussion: BAC limits, readings and trace quantities in foods.

**B92 8NW** · 24th December 2007, 09:59 PM

Maybe a police officer here can clarify.

For those on probationary licences or others who have the big "Z" on their licences because they have been naughty, what does zero BAC actually mean?

Vicroads says the following:

"... you must have a Blood Alcohol Content (BAC) of .00%"

Given that the machines used by the cops measure to three decimals places, does this mean .003 for example would be classed as "zero" given that the requirement is .00? At three decimal places we are getting down to very minute quantities that could be from natural biological processes, such as digestion of alcohol-containing foods like cakes, puddings etc, especially given that its Christmas. Like most things vic roads and the police do, this isn't publicised or made available... its completely ambiguous.

I certainly won't be drinking tomorrow because I need to drive 250km to Benalla, but is it worth even eating? What if you have nothing to drink but eat disguised alcohol containing foods and give a reading >.000% ? Some chocolates, pizzas, and mouth washes can put you over the limit of "zero".

When the police officers says before the test, as they do, "have you had anything to drink today?", I'm guessing that providing a carefully worded response such as "I have not actively consumed alcohol yet I cannot be entirely certain that there has not been passive ingress of alcohol into my body from any substrates I have consumed", would land a night in a cell pretty quick. (Though from a legal perspective, a very intelligent response)

Christ I'm paranoid. It's not police, its still Okhrana, CHEKA, Stasi

Is there a threshold?
Is there an "immune" response?
Or is it all up to how good your lawyer and how nice the magistrate is?

**Slunnie** · 24th December 2007, 10:07 PM

I think 0.00% means zero, zilch, naddo, zip! 0.00% unlike any other measurement of BAC it doesn't need any type of tolerance or any allowance for machine error. If you have a alcohol in your blood I would expect to get pinged. If you go looking for a loophole in a BAC level you'll come unstuck and DUI is probably on of the few road offences that most people have no sympathy for. Really, it's fairly black and white.

**CraigE** · 24th December 2007, 10:10 PM

There is no threshold. 0 is 0 nothing else. It is unlikely any foods will have any effect however it is possible to get a minor reading. Usually by the time you undertake the second test (and this is the one you would be booked on) on the evidentiary machine you would be zero. This testing protocol is what allows for this. We use exactly the same on the mine site. Most foods actually have the alcohol cooked out of them. There are some that do not and it is your obligation to know what you are eating.

**p38arover** · 24th December 2007, 10:20 PM

We get tested at work. Zero means less than .02 with us.

**JDNSW** · 24th December 2007, 10:25 PM

Just as an addition to this - recently a friend of my d-i-l who was on a probationary licence was breath tested and got a non-zero reading. The second test was zero, but she still got a fine of $500 and three months suspension because she admitted after the first test that she had had one drink. The moral would seem to be that you should be very careful about what you say.

John

**p38arover** · 24th December 2007, 10:42 PM

Yes, I've noticed the cops ask if you've had anything to drink.

Best to say you've had nothing.

The reason our testers have .02 is because that is the lowest they'll detect accurately. Our drugs group use the same breath testers as the police.

**Mick-Kelly** · 24th December 2007, 10:48 PM

zero is zero however in Qld you wont be prosecuted if its below 0.02%. Dont be tempted if your on a zero limit abide by it.

**DEFENDERZOOK** · 24th December 2007, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by p38arover

Yes, I've noticed the cops ask if you've had anything to drink.

Best to say you've had nothing.

The reason our testers have .02 is because that is the lowest they'll detect accurately. Our drugs group use the same breath testers as the police.

actually......they ask if youve had anything to drink so they can tell if their test is going to be accurate.....
if you say you just had a drink 15 minutes ago.......and you are only just over the limit......
they will assume that its just because its still on your breath because the body hasnt had a chance to digest it yet.....
if you know what i mean.....

now....depending on their mood......they may just say.....ok...goodbye.....
or they may make you wait an hour so they can test you again......

if id been drinking......id like to wait an hour before being retested.....it would give your body a chance to absorb the alcohol.....
as they say......you can have one drink every hour......

**RobHay** · 25th December 2007, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by CraigE

There is no threshold. 0 is 0 nothing else. It is unlikely any foods will have any effect however it is possible to get a minor reading. Usually by the time you undertake the second test (and this is the one you would be booked on) on the evidentiary machine you would be zero. This testing protocol is what allows for this. We use exactly the same on the mine site. Most foods actually have the alcohol cooked out of them. There are some that do not and it is your obligation to know what you are eating.

Jeeeezzzzzz You have'nt tried my Missus' Rum Balls have you...If you had you would'nt be making a statement like that.....3 will put you over, 6
you are paraletic

**JDNSW** · 25th December 2007, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by DEFENDERZOOK

actually......they ask if youve had anything to drink so they can tell if their test is going to be accurate.....
if you say you just had a drink 15 minutes ago.......and you are only just over the limit......
..........
you can have one drink every hour......

But if you are on a provisional licence, the limit is zero - and any admission you have had any drink can be taken as proof you are guilty. And you certainly can not have one drink every hour if your limit is zero - which is what this thread is about.

The problem is, the legislation says zero - and the minimum detectible limit keeps going down as technology improves.

John

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