Thread: Land Rover Engineer Requires Info

Originally Posted by p38arover

the British car industry isn't known for greatness.

Aww C'mon there are one or two?

Land Rover - all of them
Rolls Royce
British Leyland, (just the mini)
Aston Martin
TVR
Jaguar - E-Type < styling, a gift from God
Lotus - Elise/Exige
Ariel Motor Company - Atom, (supercharged version, oh yer!)
Radical
Caterham
Westfield
MG - MGBGT
Triumph
AC
Morgan
Nissan Micra - Made in Sunderland, does that count?

Lawrence,
For my two bobs worth....
In all of the posts here, you will see a huge dedication to the brand, whatever their shortcomings when compared to other 4WD offerings in the marketplace. It is the new buyers to the brand that you really need to capture.

Most people need a vehicle that they can use for their daily 'round town duties, but am still comfortable taking through the rough stuff on the weekend or an extended trip. The defender is too utilitarian for the former and the D3 is too "tricked up" for the latter. Please consider a model with a true RV focus, say a defender with a few more "mod cons" to keep the rest of the family happy (airbags for instance), but not fully electric everything.

A bigger impediment to LR ownership in my view is the lack of factory support outside the capital cities. Where I live is a regional city (30,000 people) in a reasonably affluent, well-established region. My closest LR dealer is 2 hours drive away (300km round trip). If the vehicle has a warranty issue I must take a day off work to go and sort it out, probably two days as they will have to order parts for later fitting. As much as I love the LR product, this will be a major factor when we upgrade our car in 3-5 years time. There are local Ford, Holden, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Subaru, Merc etc dealers to choose from that can give local dealer support to their customers. At the end of the day I do not care where I buy a vehicle from (Sydney etc), I just want some local technical support so that WHEN there is a problem, it can be sorted easily. That also goes for when travelling, it is no good being broken down with the nearest support being 1500km away!

The LR is way cheaper (and better value product) than the equivalent Toyota product. Just give it some decent support ala Toyota and you will be onto a winner.

Originally Posted by HangOver

Aww C'mon there are one or two?

Land Rover - all of them
Rolls Royce
British Leyland, (just the mini)
Aston Martin
TVR
Jaguar - E-Type < styling, a gift from God
Lotus - Elise/Exige
Ariel Motor Company - Atom, (supercharged version, oh yer!)
Radical
Caterham
Westfield
MG - MGBGT
Triumph
AC
Morgan
Nissan Micra - Made in Sunderland, does that count?

I was talking of the British car industry "worker"

I can't understand why they can't be serviced,get parts through ford dealerships.They are everywhere so if you follow what everyone is on about all the stuff we want LR(Ford) already has. Pat

I'm glad someone didn't forget the door seals on Defender

While we're still at it, two piece axles (axle + drive flange ) don't work where you use greased bearings. The splines fret in a short space of time, eventually failing (often in less than 40,000km) leaving you stuck. I know people that had to be recovered from the Simpson Desert because of this. It shouldn't happen.
Most knowledgeable people convert to old school oil lubed bearings by pulling the inner axle seal and using the old RTC3511 hub seal.
Either do this from the factory, or do what every other major manufacturer does world wide and use one piece flanged axles.

cheers.

Originally Posted by ORC1

You guys crack me up, send me a PM and I'll respond from my Land Rover email account. Then perhaps you/we can have a decent discussion.

Never had this problem on the US forums!!!

P.S. sorry for my typo!!! Well spotted!!!

Loz

Loz,
As most have said, we hope you are for real. There have been some very real comments made here. The problem is for the last how many ever years LRA have taken no notice of its Australian customers bar the RR high flyer brigade. Servicing and parts availability is now non existent in most country areas. This is also the sort of bait and false thread that some other 4x4 owners from other sites will post as fake genuine forumers to get info on LR deficiencies and then post out of context on other forums. It has happened before, so forgive some of us for being a little suspicious. Normally this sort of survey / questioning come in the mail. Over the last 3-4 years there has been extensive reputation damage done to LR in Australia by lack of service and promotion of the marque.
As said the Disco needs to get back to its original concept of being a mid range 4x4 not an elite top end vehicle and the Defender needs a bit of updating without losing its heritage. I know of heaps of people who would consider one if it had air bags and a little more comfort. I did buy a new Disco in 97 as the service and deal was far better than anyone else. I have also bought a used Defender off the same dealer and also had a RRC.
I would not at present consider buying another new one due to lack off backup, even though the cars are great.
Cheers
Craig

Originally Posted by ORC1

You guys crack me up, send me a PM and I'll respond from my Land Rover email account. Then perhaps you/we can have a decent discussion.

Never had this problem on the US forums!!!

P.S. sorry for my typo!!! Well spotted!!!

Loz

perhaps this is the sadest inditment of LR in Australia, we have had so little support from the parent company that even when you have proven to be legit we are still suspicious of you. take that to the managers and smack them around the head with it, without us poor sad bloody enthusiusts LR would not be in australia any more.

I love my landy and want to buy another BUT this one is the last, I will not get rid of it as it will become a farm hack. My next 4x4 will be an OKA all the good bits without the gimmics. (have a look at an OKA)

If this sounds like a rant umm actually it is because I am so ticked off at the worlds best 4x4 being turned into a substandard vehicle due to lethargic indifference of the management, why build the bloody thing if you are not going to support it?

yours truly
a loyal but frustrated fan
Blythe

Loz

If you posted on the Australian "Overlander" forum run by Overlander magazine, you'd get a torrent of replies as to why people won't buy Land Rovers - from build quality through oil leaks, electrics, lack of dealer support, etc. Some are valid, many are not. Some, e.g., oil leaks, are based on outdated products - or are they? Surely if the Japanese can make leak-free products, Britain can, too. (I've owned British cars for the past 48 years and none have been even close to leak-free - my P38A has been the best (since the engine was rebuilt here, not ex-factory).

More than a few on that forum have been been bitten in the bum by LR ownership and have moved to Japanese vehicles. Equally, many on there are repeating the tales of old and have no experience of the marque.

Now to specifics:

• A full-size spare wheel is essential. The RR TDV8 wasn't even considered for the Overlander 4WD of the Year as it doesn't have a full size spare - that puts it in the urban assault vehicle class, not an off-roader! Carrying a second spare is not uncommon here. (On my daughter's Disco 1, I strapped a second spare to the cargo barrier in the cabin - she lived 2500km from the nearest dealer in her State - and 1600km from the nearest dealer in another. The previous nearest dealer was 990km away but he's closed). 2508km is the distance from London to Moscow, and 1600 km is the distance from London to istabul, Turkey. Would you drive your car to Moscow or Istanbul to get it serviced? We can't get service so we have to truck them these distances when they fail. Maybe LR management can't comprehend the distances unless they are explained like just have.
• Lack of fuel capacity is a real problem. A second sub-tank is essential for touring - or even a weekend away doing low range work! It may not be important in Europe but here it is.
• Ask owners about their view of the Disco 3 towbar and how that impacts on a fitting a rear bar and extra wheel carriers.
• Acknowledging there is a problem and then doing something about would be nice, e.g. TD5 injector looms, TD5 oil pump bolts, 4.0/4.6 V8 slipped liners (ask me about that), getting LR Australia to get the dealers to do the right thing (LR Aust have told me they can't interfere in how a dealer runs his business even though the dealer doesn't update records with new lockset info, etc. Ask me how I know.) At least Nissan Australia replaced all the blown up 3.0 turbo diesels in their Patrols. Their customer service in this respect has been, by most accounts, excellent - even down to paying for accomodation and for food lost in the car fridge. LR don't even seem to have acknowledged all the failed V8s with slipped liners.
• Don't put the spare wheel under the floor (like the P38A) so one has to unpack the car to get to it - ever tried it in pouring rain? Oh, you have, you are in the UK! I'd have preferred a vertical mount like the classic but that may have been a bit hard given the size of the wheel.
• Make the bodies waterproof (OK, we'll except the Defender from that as we know LR are good but they aren't that good!). How the hell can a British car be designed to leak water in, e.g. the Discovery 1 (everywhere) and the P38A tailgate. Surely they get enough testing in your weather.
• Make them serviceable. Have you every tried doing a heater core replacement on a P38A or a Disco 1 (update)? The '95 onward Disco 1 would have been easy if LR had designed a heater pipe clamp to have a retaining screw that was accessible from within the cabin insead of being up against the firewall. It was easy once I ground the screw down and drilled out the remainder of it.
• Don't try to save a few pence here and there. You aren't Ford (oh!) where saving a few pennies will amount to a lot of money over the number of cars produced. You don't produce that many. I'd pay a few more dollars for a car that was better made, e.g., a cheap vinyl handbrake boot that flakes off on the P38A - a car costing A$116,000, or the finish that wears off from L322 seat trims.
• Find someone who can make a headliner material that doesn't fail and sag within a few years of production. Don't ask on here how many have had to have the roof lining redone. Maybe buy the material from Australia. Our cars don't seem to suffer like Land Rovers do.