Thread: Rudds apology

To many people are looking at the aboriginals in terms of the behaviour of some of the population, there are planty of "white" alchoholics and theives and druggies aswell, does that make us lump all of the "white" population into the same basket? I think not. What people are not looking at is what actually happened. White people came into aboriginal camps and siezed peoples children and took them away never to be seen again. Think if this was you and someone did this to your children because they deemed you unfit to bring up children, regardless of the fact that the aboriginal people had been doing it, without modern medicine for hundreds of years. This is what the apology was for, nothing else. As for compensation, i believe that many of the states said that there wouldnt be any as a result of the apology.

All this about aboriginals do this and aboriginals do that is irrelevant, and as some have iluded to the next step is to help fix that problem. The schools in aboriginal communities are second rate at best with second rate resources, and to alot of these kids education has no value because they dont see an out. What are they going to do with a school certificate in the middle of no where, to them it is meaningless. I have thought about moving to an aboriginal community to work in the schools but at the moment i cant fiancially move anywhere let alone that far. There needs to be incentive to get teachers out there and work with these kids, and in the communities where it is happening, the elders within the community are working along side the teachers and achieving top results with some students obtaining scholarships to private schools.

I have been, in the past, one of those sceptics who criticise them for their behaviour, drinking etc, and i think as a nation we need to move past this and look at solving the problem, not ignoring like has been the case until now. Matt

Originally Posted by Reads90

when i drove around Australia it opened my eyes alot to the state of the aboriginals.
we first came across aboriginals in S/A and that was the drunk one in the middle of the high street and asking you for money , fags and other stuff.
Then we were told by serveral travels (Nomads , and truck drivers) not to stop for Aboriginals and to hit them if they step in front of your car. This was a great shock to me , and thought a bit much and the beer talking or taking the **** out of the pom.
It was not untill i came to Leonora police station (where i went to pick up my Aboriginal permit to drive the track) I was asked what car i had and if i had a bull bar . I was then told (By a what look like mixed Aboriginal race Copper) that if any aboriginal jump out in front of me or stood in the road then hit them with the bull bar. The lastest trick was to have woman with a baby stand in the road for you to stop. They said if this happens then hit them too. If you hit someone then report it at the police station at Ayres rock. This shocked the hell out of me . They told me that 3 weeks earlyer a road train had stopped for a woman with a bady and 6 aboriginals came from a bush and beat the driver and then left him 500 k's from anywhere and took his truck .
As you drive down the track to Ayres rock there is loads and loads of burn't out cars on the side of the road. We stopped counting at 250 , in 150k. Then you know when you are getting to an Aboriginal township as the crap on the side of the road starts to build up and up , and i am talking about used nappies, Beer cans and anything else. It is disgusting.

Then in Alice springs there are Aboriginals drunk all over town and in the river bed, plus the march of the Aboriginals up to the bottle shop at 2pm..Also you come upon them in the supermarket and the smell of bozze and everyhting else is beyond belief. And that is not just one but alot of them .

You also see a newish land cruser 100 seris full of about 13 aboriginals. The police told me they can't arrest them for over loading a car. These cars are wrecked, the insides are just covered in crap (fesses) Saw loads and loads of these cars

driving to W/A you see some little townships where there are really nice house, ones i would be proud to own. You see new ones to show you what they were like and then most of them are burn't , smashed and in a state of diss repair.

Up on the way to the cape , we came across a Nissan about 6 months old that two Aboriginals drove into 2 m of ater with no snorkle. Whne the truck stopped they swam out and left it. And walked off. It was still there a month after. After all i was told this is because they don't have to pay for it

And i have not mentioned the restriction on petrol and achol all around Australia.

This is not me being rasict, but what i saw as a pom who came to Australia and traveled around. I have heard alot more stories but these are the things i saw with my own eyes. I have seen alot more but what i have put on here is enough
My Sister in law works for the goverment in Sydney and is always going on about how hard the aboriginals are trreated by the Australian goverment . After one time i nearly bought her a ticket to Alice springs, as she has never been to the outback and the only Aboriginal she has seen have been in the towns. And to show her how much the goverment spend on helping them
I argee with people who say how far do you go. After all does the UK goverment say sorry to all the convicts that were sent over here. Separteted for their wifes and familes for just nicking a loaf of bread.

Just my thoughts
Ali

Valid observations, however, this is the dark side of Indigenous life. I lived in aboriginal communities for 5 years in Arnhem Land (not white towns with Aboriginals, real communities) My wife and three kids were the safest they have ever been in this country. I agree with 99% of the opinions expressed on these posts because they paint an overall picture of the problems in Aboriginal Australia. My Aboriginal friends and family who made me and my family feel welcome and part of the community, looked out for our safety and taught us things we would never have known, had we stayed in country NSW. They are genuine people who assist in school programmes, medical clinics and paliative home care programmes, for less money per week than a Woolies shelf packer. They express to me and others that reconciliation/ apologies are just words. (same as non indigenous society) They want to share with us and us with them, just like we share on this forum and with friends etc. Most dont want money. The ones who do want money will always be there just like the people who sue McDonalds because the coffee is too hot. Check the history of how Aboriginal communites/camps came to be... in some cases less than 60 years ago.

Our city parks have drunks and general rifraff, you just dont notice it. Aboriginal Aust. has some mammoth issues to overcome, but, there are some sensational people with vision and dreams trying and succeeeding. It is just not reported.

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Will the relatives of "The Man" apologise to me for the stolen camera and other items from my car.

I got the camera back when I "made a citizens arrest" of one of the perpetrators but not anything else or the damage to the locks on my Rangie. Although the one who was arrested wanted an apology from me, actually she wanted me arrested for restraining her. Yes she was a first cousin of "The Man".

Will they also apologise to me for the several episodes of fare evasion when I was driving a taxi?

Diana

I've been in a similar situation to you Diana. And we both know full well we will never get anything back. And the idea of this sorry fixing anything in my mind is just ridiculous.

It was an emotionally charged day and now it has gone. If it makes a difference to enough people I'll be pleased but i doubt it will.

I don't believe an apology 30 years down the track is useful to anyone and I think if Krudd wanted to do something he should of just whacked all the money into all the things we will be paying for now like the medical, school etc.. And instead of paying this compensation he could of put that into education for the Indigenous and medical.

But if people are compensated I'm sure I'm not the only one to think that they money won't be going in to the right things for many of them.

In a sense I'm ashamed of saying this stuff but.... That's what I believe.

I'd rant more but it feels pretty useless. Oh but for the record. I saw nothing wrong with Dr Nelsons speech and people who did I believe have their head stuck in the clouds. He's been one of the only politicians who has tried to always do the right thing by Indigenous people.

Neville Austin launches first stolen generations claim in Victoria | NEWS.com.au

If it is PROVED in a court of law that any of these people were unlawfully removed from their families, then they are duely owed compensation.

This is true regardless of recent politicing.

If it is PROVED, will Andrew Bolt and Sophie Mirabella retract their denials?

Be intersting to run a poll and see who agrees with Rudd version or the version of the Apology posted here.

As for the threats of sueing for compensation anyone who is goign to sue will do so regardless of whether apology made or not.

As for grounds for sueing nothing can justify legal action against Commonwealth Govt, it will be the religious and charitable organisations who ran the camps getting the legal headaches.

Personally its not a question of abogriginal abuse in these institutions any kid black white boy or girl who was in them got treated the same and all should be entitled to an apology from the Governments who failed to ensure they were given appropriate care and protection from child molesting abusive types who staffed these instutions.

As for it being a stolen generation, can someone tell me what we going to call the now generation in aboriginal administered govt funded townships where children and women are being beaten and raped today. The let down generation and we going to be saying sorry for not acting sooner to stop them being beaten and raped and we going to be saying sorry for not removing them from their appalling living conditions.

Politicians and the social welfare industry have a lot to answer for

Any legal test will surely have to conducted on a case by case basis. If any 'class action' is preferred then it will be a confirmed JOKE! It wasn't a conspiritist extermination program, it was what was thought to be the 'right' thing to do at the time, wrong or right whats done is done. Money never helped an individual get over anything...neither did saying sorry.

Originally Posted by moretonisle

To Duncanw,
they lived happily without us for 40,000 years.
Maybe we stuffed their way of life over the last 200 years.
I am glad the government apologised for its actions.

Well the aboriginals were / are nomads who roamed the land with the seasons completely isolated from anywhere else, they have been treated badly but no more than any other race on the planet.

Its funny because when I first arrived in this country I actually felt sorry for the way they have been treated (which is the view of most people from England) but over the past 12 years of being here living near and yes working with indigenous Australians it has changed my point of view dramatically. When I went back to England last year the talk drifted towards how badly they are treated and everyone was shocked by my attitude towards them.

I could go on for pages of the things I've experienced (mostly bad but some good) but I would only be adding fuel to the fire, apologies are just words and if they truly want a better life then its given to them on a golden platter and its up to them to change it. Its all very well for the hippies to hold hands and sing cum by ya around a camp fire but its not really helping anyone much.

It seems most people who don't like a differing point of view label anyone as racist without knowing what a true racist is. Go to any small town in england and you will experience racism even though you are the same colour and speak the same language but you might live 5 miles away in another town.

okay, i think i've lurked on this thread long enough. I joined this site a while ago, and have been reading the articles while i learn my way around my series III. I love this forum, and the info i've found here has been invaluable.

Originally Posted by mudmouse

Money never helped an individual get over anything...neither did saying sorry.

Mudmouse: I agree that Money is a hollow compensation, and really doesn't help people heal - the amount of suing for this and that that goes on in this world is ridiculous. but I completely disagree that saying sorry never helped an individual get over anything.

What is the one of the first thing we teach our kids?
If they do something which hurts someone else, we make them say sorry.
It doesn't matter if they didn't mean to do it. It doesn't matter if their friends told them to. We get them to acknowledge that their actions have caused hurt, and that they are remorseful for that hurt.

What is our typical response when we find out someone has suffered a loss in their family? We say sorry. Sure, I might not be guilty of killing your grandma. But it doesn't mean I can't feel sorry for your loss.

We ask murderers and criminals to apologise to victims and their families all the time, to allow them to gain closure.

Sorry won't undo the wrongs, but it might allow people to begin the process of moving on.

Someone earlier in this thread asked why an apology is important? Because the people who were wronged want one. It doesn't matter that you or I weren't personally responsible. It matters that these people are hurting, and we as humans should feel some empathy for that.

A few people in this thread have expressed the view that we should just get on with what needs to be done. Fair enough, but could you honestly work side by side with someone who slapped you in the face, knowing they felt no remorse for their actions? or even the child of that person, knowing they wouldn't even consider apolgising for the embarrassing actions of their parents?

This apology has removed some of the blocks, and maybe now we can start to work together properly.

Compensation is a seperate matter, and it's inevitable that some black fellas(ironically, the ones who have taken to "white justice" the best) will go chasing it, the same way that some white fellas will also always have a crack at compo if they think they're in with a chance of making some easy money.

Reckon you'd be any keener for them to scrap the compo claims, and instead use black fella justice? We could spear every politician in the leg... just a thought...

Look - end of the day: We're all people. some white, some black, some dickheads, some greedy and some just upset. Oh, and remember - some black fella's drive landys too