Thread: Rudds apology

Moving the goalposts or disallowing part of the playing field has been the unethical norm in this country for way too long.
Remember the AWB inquiry, actually the list is boringly long and I'm sure the perceptive are all too aware.
Warning, this may make you quite angry.
Research Paper Cover

Originally Posted by incisor

you what another try?

He certainly needs it!
Mt Father in law would be down right angry over that remark.

Originally Posted by incisor

can anyone tell me how many children were forcibly removed from their parents during this time, white black or brindle ?

or how many babies were forcibly adopted out, white black or brindle ?

there has been a lot of rhetoric about this but, very little mentioned about the general views of society and how that impacted on the everyday lives of most living in Australia during this era, white black or brindle ?

i also take the time to remind people that playing the man, will not win you the argument and that if you take the time to write your message in a coherent manner, most will take the time to read and absorb your comment instead of fobbing you off..

Its estimated that nearly 100.000 children were forcibly removed from their homes over a period of 90 years.
Very few were taken out of concern for their welfare. In some towns in Australia kids were taken from the streets where they played and the parents were informed days later when the children were processed. Children's welfare,was not a main concern and it is a fallacy to implyor say it was.
My wife was on such baby forcibly adopted out, Her mother was also a a stolen child.
let me tell you a little story My mother in laws nephew was taken at the age of 18 months. He was one of two children. One taken one left. He was given to a young immigrant family from Holland.
They remained in Australia until he was 4 years old and then they went back to Holland with him. In Holland he was beaten by his peers on a daily bases. He was beaten so severely that he now has permanent brain damage suffering a several strokes as a result of the beatings.
The Australian Government refused to recognize him as an Australian and refused him resident status for 8 years. He was denied immigration as he was married to a dutch woman with three kids in Holland. The Immigration laws prevented him from returning to Australia as the majority of his family were said to be Holland.
He now has finally been granted residency In Australia but yet still to be granted citizenship and recognized as indigenous to this country.
There are several bits of paper verifying him as beeing removed from his family as a baby back in 1951.
Let me also just tell you that his natural mother killed herself 3 months after he was taken because she couldn't live in a society where a big brother just comes and takes your kids.
Now admittedly this is one of the bad cases but none the less it is a case and I ask you, is this man owed an apology? and if the answer is yes is IM sorry enough?
Or could it be argued that this poor bloke has been dragged through hell and back should be given some compensation so that the little time he has left can be lived out in any way he sees fit?

Originally Posted by muddydigger

Its estimated that nearly 100.000 children were forcibly removed from their homes over a period of 90 years.
Very few were taken out of concern for their welfare. In some towns in Australia kids were taken from the streets where they played and the parents were informed days later when the children were processed. Children's welfare,was not a main concern and it is a fallacy to implyor say it was.
My wife was on such baby forcibly adopted out, Her mother was also a a stolen child.
let me tell you a little story My mother in laws nephew was taken at the age of 18 months. He was one of two children. One taken one left. He was given to a young immigrant family from Holland.
They remained in Australia until he was 4 years old and then they went back to Holland with him. In Holland he was beaten by his peers on a daily bases. He was beaten so severely that he now has permanent brain damage suffering a several strokes as a result of the beatings.
The Australian Government refused to recognize him as an Australian and refused him resident status for 8 years. He was denied immigration as he was married to a dutch woman with three kids in Holland. The Immigration laws prevented him from returning to Australia as the majority of his family were said to be Holland.
He now has finally been granted residency In Australia but yet still to be granted citizenship and recognized as indigenous to this country.
There are several bits of paper verifying him as beeing removed from his family as a baby back in 1951.
Let me also just tell you that his natural mother killed herself 3 months after he was taken because she couldn't live in a society where a big brother just comes and takes your kids.
Now admittedly this is one of the bad cases but none the less it is a case and I ask you, is this man owed an apology? and if the answer is yes is IM sorry enough?
Or could it be argued that this poor bloke has been dragged through hell and back should be given some compensation so that the little time he has left can be lived out in any way he sees fit?

Muddydigger, my only intention in making this post is to try to bolster you for what this act of courage may attract.
So far, there have been an extraordinary number of posts that express callous disregard for humanity, blatant racism and ignorance , a level of hypocrasy that I personally found stunning, a concern with monetary loss over and above loss of life and unjust injury, expressions of disgust at how compensation money will be used (Like it is any of their business), devastating mindless hypocracy in disassociation from the events as they were perpetrated by others and in the same breath exclamations of denying indigenous people usage of introduced benefits of white society that were introduced by other whites. All of this has taken place here while speaking about non personal entities and policy.
Your exposure in making this personal contribution could very well attract more arrogant and indifferent remarks that will personally wound you and loved ones.
Admittedly I am manipulating a softer outcome by posting this, preferring a personal attack about this post than seeing that happen, but holey dooley man, what a risk you are taking!
I applaud your courage and intention of waking others up, but I question it's wisdom.
Respect,
Tango

transcripts of both speeches linked here:

Rudd offers historic apology | The Australian

Nelsons speech was clumsy and politically sloppy.

The Apology was to "the stolen generation", that is all.

Nelsons response went on to give a critique of black/white relations from the first fleet til now. He managed to identify that:

"In brutally harsh conditions, from the small number of early British settlers our non indigenous ancestors have given us a nation the envy of any in the world. But Aboriginal Australians made involuntary sacrifices, different but no less important, to make possible the economic and social development of our modern Australia."

now to my mind, he has stated that ALL aboriginals made involuntary sacrifices that were important for the prosperity of this nation.

This has much broader compensation ramifications than the pain and suffering of 50,000. He is talking about complete disenfranchisement of ALL aboriginals from the resources of their invaded country. The involuntary release of their property. How big is that compensation claim?

I would have expected a party full of lawyers to be a bit more careful than that.

Originally Posted by Tango51

Muddydigger, my only intention in making this post is to try to bolster you for what this act of courage may attract.
So far, there have been an extraordinary number of posts that express callous disregard for humanity, blatant racism and ignorance , a level of hypocrasy that I personally found stunning, a concern with monetary loss over and above loss of life and unjust injury, expressions of disgust at how compensation money will be used (Like it is any of their business), devastating mindless hypocracy in disassociation from the events as they were perpetrated by others and in the same breath exclamations of denying indigenous people usage of introduced benefits of white society that were introduced by other whites. All of this has taken place here while speaking about non personal entities and policy.
Your exposure in making this personal contribution could very well attract more arrogant and indifferent remarks that will personally wound you and loved ones.
Admittedly I am manipulating a softer outcome by posting this, preferring a personal attack about this post than seeing that happen, but holey dooley man, what a risk you are taking!
I applaud your courage and intention of waking others up, but I question it's wisdom.
Respect,
Tango

Thank you for your thoughts.
I have highlighted one case. I Know of a lot more. The above situation is real, truthful and factual. Unlike some of the BS that has so far been written here.
I am very happily married to an aboriginal person. I Have two children who are also deemed aboriginal. I have a very good understanding of government policies and any and all entitlements.

To that end Ill just remind others here that your opinion is valued as is every memebers, but be careful what you right as there are members from every race, creed colour or religious affliction and so civility is called for.

If just one of you sits back and says F&*K me may be Ill look a bit more into this, then the risk of personal insult was worth it. For this reason I ask that the thread be left open.

Ill just give this one warning however, The situation I have described is personal it is MY family, and I will not tolerate any personal attack what so ever. I would hope that moderators will show decorum and monitor any such posts.

Originally Posted by incisor

you what another try?

No white child was ever the subject of misguided eugenics policies to remove them and "breed out the black". No white child was ever subject to removal for forced assimilation.
White kids were removed for any number of spurious welfare reasons, but skin colour was not one of them.
I stick by my original answer,"the number of white children removed solely for being white was zero". If you can point out where I am wrong I would welcome it.


Originally Posted by RonMcGr

He certainly needs it!
Mt Father in law would be down right angry over that remark.

I don't want to anger anyone but you don't say why he would be angry. So I can't respond. Maybe you can point out where I got it wrong.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the "Stolen" generation that all this has come about was approx 13000 people? Also as has been stated, there were also tens of thousands of white children removed from homes as well. My point here, is that it seem's ok that a white child was removed, not because of their skin colour but for other reasons. If that same child also suffered abuse, poor conditions etc there doesn't seem to be the same outpouring. In other words, what ever the reason the child was removed, shouldnt that be of more concern, not just because if it did happen due to the colour of their skin?

Also having read the responses on this forum, other forums, there does seem to be a majority view, and yes I do think that says something. As I stated a long time ago earlier in the thread, I think the average Aussie has no qualms about the Apology, and those that rant " racist, ignorant etc" seem to miss that. I think it is more the underlying perception that for many it is an open door to compensation. Will there be a repeat in 20-30yrs over the current NT intervention? It is interesting that those that hold the opposing view and label, perhaps people like myself as unsympathetic, racist etc, do not try themselves to see why the majority have a conflicting view.

We are the lucky country, every body has opportunity on their doorstep. Speak to a person from a war torn, third world country and compare. Speak to somebody from South Africa and about the current atrocities that happen over there. There are children in Thailand, called Miracle Children because there mothers took a pill to terminate the pregnancy at 6-7mths, and they now live in an orphanage. I personally donate $$$ oversea's to children who live in some of these ghastly conditions. They do not have the choices that children of all colour have over here.

I think proof will be in the pudding, the Apology has been done and if that helps people move on, I think that is wonderful. If a flood of lawsuits and compensation claims come out of the woodwork, well then it will show for what it really was....ie waiting for the apology to hopefully open that door. There have been examples of good outcomes and poor outcomes from any child that was removed from a home, personally if a child was abused or suffered, that should be bloody more important than skin colour,

Regards

Stevo