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Thread: Rudds apology

  1. #171
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    Roughly reading through this mammoth post, it came to my attention that no-one (unless I missed a post?) seems to realise that Aborigines are already being compensated.

    Of course, there are the well known Mambo Land Title compensation cases, however, more recently there have been a number of compensation cases where Aborigines have been awarded compensation for being "taken", as well as abuse cases etc. (One such case actually arose in Canada, from an Aboriginal child being sexually & physically abused (beaten etc).

    For anyone's interest, below is an exerpt from a case recently heard in Adelaide.

    Judgments are extremely long, so for that reason alone, I have not put the whole case in this post. However, if anyone is interested enough to wish to view the case in its entirety, feel free to PM me.

    It certainly makes for interesting reading.

    TREVORROW v STATE OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA (No 5)
    Judgment of The Honourable Justice Gray
    1 August 2007

    TORTS - MALICIOUS PROCEDURE AND FALSE IMPRISONMENT
    TORTS - NEGLIGENCE - ESSENTIALS OF ACTION FOR NEGLIGENCE
    EQUITY - GENERAL PRINCIPLES - FIDUCIARY OBLIGATIONS
    CONSTITUTIONAL LAW - THE NON-JUDICIAL ORGANS OF GOVERNMENT - THE CROWN - LIABILITIES OF THE CROWN - IN TORT - FOR ACTS OF SERVANTS OR AGENTS - LIABILITY OF SERVANT OR AGENT - FOR MISFEASANCE IN PUBLIC OFFICE
    DAMAGES - MEASURE AND REMOTENESS OF DAMAGES IN ACTIONS FOR TORT - REMOTENESS AND CAUSATION
    LIMITATION OF ACTIONS - CONTRACTS, TORTS AND PERSONAL ACTIONS - THE PERIOD OF LIMITATION - ACTIONS FOUNDED ON SIMPLE CONTRACT AND TORT (INCLUDING BREACH OF STATUTORY DUTY)
    The plaintiff brought an action against the State of South Australia claiming misfeasance of public office, false imprisonment, breach of duty of care and breach of fiduciary and statutory duties. In 1949 and 1954 the State received legal advice that it did not have the authority to remove Aboriginal children absent certain procedures being followed - In 1957 the plaintiff aged 13 months was taken to hospital – In January 1958 the plaintiff was removed from hospital and placed into the care of a foster family by a statutory board and government department – In 1967 the plaintiff was returned to live with his natural mother – Consideration of whether the removal and fostering of the plaintiff by the board and department was without statutory warrant or legal authority and ultra vires - whether the board and department involved in the plaintiff’s removal, fostering and return were emanations and agents of the State – whether the State is liable for the actions of the departmental officers – whether there was misfeasance in public office – whether the plaintiff was falsely imprisoned – whether the State owed the plaintiff a duty of care and if so whether it was breached – whether the State owed the plaintiff fiduciary duties - consideration of remoteness and foreseeability – consideration of declarations, damages, equitable compensation and exemplary damages.
    Held: The removal and placement of the plaintiff was without statutory warrant or legal authority and ultra vires – the statutory board and government department involved in the plaintiff’s removal, placement and return to his natural family were emanations and agents of the State – the State is liable for the actions of the board and departmental officers - the State owed a duty of care to the plaintiff at the time of his removal, fostering and subsequent return to his natural family – the State breached its duty of care to the plaintiff – the plaintiff was falsely imprisoned – the plaintiff was subject to misfeasance in public office – the State had a fiduciary duty to inform the plaintiff of the circumstances of his removal and to ensure he received independent legal advice - declarations made and damages including exemplary damages awarded.
    The plaintiff made application for an extension of time pursuant to the Limitation of Actions Act – consideration of principles in extending time – consideration of the defence of laches – Held: Extension granted – State’s defence of laches rejected.




    The Statutory Scheme
    32
    The statutory scheme in place at the time of the plaintiff’s removal from his natural family entrusted two bodies with roles to play in ensuring that Aboriginal children in need were properly cared for – the APB and the CWPRB.
    33
    Pursuant to section 7 of Aborigines Act 1934-1939,the APB had the following duties:

    (a) to apportion, distribute, and apply, as seems most fit, the moneys at the disposal of the board:
    (b) in its discretion, to apply part of the moneys at its disposal in the purchase of stock and implements to be loaned to aborigines to whom land has been allotted under section 18, and may supply the same accordingly either without payment or on such terms as are approved by the board, and no person shall, except with the approval of the board, acquire any title to any goods or chattels so loaned as aforesaid:
    (c) to distribute blankets, clothing, provisions, and other relief or assistance to the aborigines.
    (d) to provide, as far as practicable, for the supply of food, medical attendance, medicines, and shelter for the sick, aged, and infirm aborigines.
    (e) to provide, when possible, for the custody, maintenance and education of the children of aborigines.
    (f) to manage and regulate the use of all reserves for aborigines.
    (g) to exercise a general supervision and care over all matters affecting the welfare of the aborigines, and to protect them against injustice, imposition, and fraud.
    34
    The APB was the legal guardian of Aboriginal children. Section 10 provided:

    (1) The board shall be the legal guardian of every aboriginal child, notwithstanding that any such child has a parent or other relative living, until such child attains the age of twenty-one years, except whilst such child is a State child within the meaning of the Maintenance Act, 1926.
    and further provided:

    (2) Every protector shall, within his district, be the local guardian of every such child within his district.
    (3) Such local guardian shall have and exercise the powers and duties prescribed.
    35
    Section 17(1) of the Aborigines Act 1934-1939 provided that the APB could place an Aboriginal person within a reserve or Aboriginal institution:

    The board may cause any aborigine to be kept within the boundaries of any reserve or aboriginal institution, or to be removed to and kept within the boundaries of any reserve or aboriginal institution, or to be removed from one reserve or aboriginal institution to another reserve or aboriginal institution, and to be kept therein.
    It should be immediately observed that this subsection had no part to play in the removal or placement of the plaintiff.
    36
    Under the legislative scheme in place, the CWPRB, pursuant to the Maintenance Act 1926-1937,bore the statutory responsibility for caring for children in need, whether Aboriginal or otherwise.
    37
    The legislative scheme envisaged that the two boards would work together. Importantly, section 38 of the Aborigines Act 1934-1939 provided that the APB and the CWPRB were authorised to work in concert to effect the removal of an Aboriginal child according to law:



  2. #172
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    Roughly reading through this mammoth post, it came to my attention that no-one (unless I missed a post?) seems to realise that Aborigines are already being compensated.

    Of course, there are the well known Mambo Land Title compensation cases, however, more recently there have been a number of compensation cases where Aborigines have been awarded compensation for being "taken", as well as abuse cases etc. (One such case actually arose in Canada, from an Aboriginal child being sexually & physically abused (beaten etc).

    For anyone's interest, below is an exerpt from a case recently heard in Adelaide.

    Judgments are extremely long, so for that reason alone, I have not put the whole case in this post. However, if anyone is interested enough to wish to view the case in its entirety, feel free to PM me.

    It certainly makes for interesting reading.


    TREVORROW v STATE OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA (No 5)




    Judgment of The Honourable Justice Gray


    1 August 2007


    TORTS - MALICIOUS PROCEDURE AND FALSE IMPRISONMENT
    TORTS - NEGLIGENCE - ESSENTIALS OF ACTION FOR NEGLIGENCE
    EQUITY - GENERAL PRINCIPLES - FIDUCIARY OBLIGATIONS
    CONSTITUTIONAL LAW - THE NON-JUDICIAL ORGANS OF GOVERNMENT - THE CROWN - LIABILITIES OF THE CROWN - IN TORT - FOR ACTS OF SERVANTS OR AGENTS - LIABILITY OF SERVANT OR AGENT - FOR MISFEASANCE IN PUBLIC OFFICE
    DAMAGES - MEASURE AND REMOTENESS OF DAMAGES IN ACTIONS FOR TORT - REMOTENESS AND CAUSATION
    LIMITATION OF ACTIONS - CONTRACTS, TORTS AND PERSONAL ACTIONS - THE PERIOD OF LIMITATION - ACTIONS FOUNDED ON SIMPLE CONTRACT AND TORT (INCLUDING BREACH OF STATUTORY DUTY)
    The plaintiff brought an action against the State of South Australia claiming misfeasance of public office, false imprisonment, breach of duty of care and breach of fiduciary and statutory duties. In 1949 and 1954 the State received legal advice that it did not have the authority to remove Aboriginal children absent certain procedures being followed - In 1957 the plaintiff aged 13 months was taken to hospital – In January 1958 the plaintiff was removed from hospital and placed into the care of a foster family by a statutory board and government department – In 1967 the plaintiff was returned to live with his natural mother – Consideration of whether the removal and fostering of the plaintiff by the board and department was without statutory warrant or legal authority and ultra vires - whether the board and department involved in the plaintiff’s removal, fostering and return were emanations and agents of the State – whether the State is liable for the actions of the departmental officers – whether there was misfeasance in public office – whether the plaintiff was falsely imprisoned – whether the State owed the plaintiff a duty of care and if so whether it was breached – whether the State owed the plaintiff fiduciary duties - consideration of remoteness and foreseeability – consideration of declarations, damages, equitable compensation and exemplary damages.
    Held: The removal and placement of the plaintiff was without statutory warrant or legal authority and ultra vires – the statutory board and government department involved in the plaintiff’s removal, placement and return to his natural family were emanations and agents of the State – the State is liable for the actions of the board and departmental officers - the State owed a duty of care to the plaintiff at the time of his removal, fostering and subsequent return to his natural family – the State breached its duty of care to the plaintiff – the plaintiff was falsely imprisoned – the plaintiff was subject to misfeasance in public office – the State had a fiduciary duty to inform the plaintiff of the circumstances of his removal and to ensure he received independent legal advice - declarations made and damages including exemplary damages awarded.
    The plaintiff made application for an extension of time pursuant to the Limitation of Actions Act – consideration of principles in extending time – consideration of the defence of laches – Held: Extension granted – State’s defence of laches rejected.



    The Statutory Scheme
    32
    The statutory scheme in place at the time of the plaintiff’s removal from his natural family entrusted two bodies with roles to play in ensuring that Aboriginal children in need were properly cared for – the APB and the CWPRB.
    33
    Pursuant to section 7 of Aborigines Act 1934-1939,the APB had the following duties:

    (a) to apportion, distribute, and apply, as seems most fit, the moneys at the disposal of the board:
    (b) in its discretion, to apply part of the moneys at its disposal in the purchase of stock and implements to be loaned to aborigines to whom land has been allotted under section 18, and may supply the same accordingly either without payment or on such terms as are approved by the board, and no person shall, except with the approval of the board, acquire any title to any goods or chattels so loaned as aforesaid:
    (c) to distribute blankets, clothing, provisions, and other relief or assistance to the aborigines.
    (d) to provide, as far as practicable, for the supply of food, medical attendance, medicines, and shelter for the sick, aged, and infirm aborigines.
    (e) to provide, when possible, for the custody, maintenance and education of the children of aborigines.
    (f) to manage and regulate the use of all reserves for aborigines.
    (g) to exercise a general supervision and care over all matters affecting the welfare of the aborigines, and to protect them against injustice, imposition, and fraud.
    34
    The APB was the legal guardian of Aboriginal children. Section 10 provided:

    (1) The board shall be the legal guardian of every aboriginal child, notwithstanding that any such child has a parent or other relative living, until such child attains the age of twenty-one years, except whilst such child is a State child within the meaning of the Maintenance Act, 1926.
    and further provided:
    (2) Every protector shall, within his district, be the local guardian of every such child within his district.
    (3) Such local guardian shall have and exercise the powers and duties prescribed.
    35
    Section 17(1) of the Aborigines Act 1934-1939 provided that the APB could place an Aboriginal person within a reserve or Aboriginal institution:

    The board may cause any aborigine to be kept within the boundaries of any reserve or aboriginal institution, or to be removed to and kept within the boundaries of any reserve or aboriginal institution, or to be removed from one reserve or aboriginal institution to another reserve or aboriginal institution, and to be kept therein.
    It should be immediately observed that this subsection had no part to play in the removal or placement of the plaintiff.
    36
    Under the legislative scheme in place, the CWPRB, pursuant to the Maintenance Act 1926-1937,bore the statutory responsibility for caring for children in need, whether Aboriginal or otherwise.
    37
    The legislative scheme envisaged that the two boards would work together. Importantly, section 38 of the Aborigines Act 1934-1939 provided that the APB and the CWPRB were authorised to work in concert to effect the removal of an Aboriginal child according to law:
    Last edited by Panda; 18th February 2008 at 07:14 PM. Reason: accidently put in twice

  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panda View Post

    Of course, there are the well known Mambo Land Title compensation cases:

    was that the well known "Mambo Land Title" compensation case led by Reg Mombassa or the Mabo case by Eddie Mabo?

    pity, you put so much effort into it but blew it in the second paragraph
    LAND ROVER;
    HELPING PUT OIL BACK IN THE GROUND FOR 70 YEARS
    CARS DON'T GET ANY "GREENER" THAT.

  4. #174
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    Well I knew what I meant! Comes with being blonde! Probably thinking about having a little dance ...

    Quote Originally Posted by barney View Post
    was that the well known "Mambo Land Title" compensation case led by Reg Mombassa or the Mabo case by Eddie Mabo?

    pity, you put so much effort into it but blew it in the second paragraph

  5. #175
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    Goodbye and Goodluck

    As all who have viewed this thread would be aware ill feeing has been displayed against me and unfortunately by me.
    The cause of this ill feeling has been a difference of opinion and the accusation of hypocrisy has arisen.

    I made the mistake of posting a joke diploma for rednecks and this action was claimed to be ridiculous, probably right at the time.

    However on the assumption that my post went against fair and logical discussion I beg to differ.
    Several of the posts offered nothing but racial hatred or at best serious misinformation.
    To propose a position one must be able to substantiate it
    This was rarely done.
    A few offered links to docs. but generally assumptions and insinuation were the more popular posting forms.
    I posted this link because I believe it give a very good insight to what, when and most importantly why the 'Stolen Generations' occured.
    Stolen Generation Robert Manne essay

    This is an excellent essay not overly lengthy and adequate in detail.

    This post;

    this is what the apology should have been

    AUSTRALIAN APOLOGY TO THE ABORIGINAL POPULATION

    We apologise for giving you doctors and free medical care, which allows you to survive and multiply so that you can demand apologies.

    We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the English language and thus we opened up to you the entire European civilisation, thought and enterprise.

    We feel that we must apologise for building hundreds of homes for you, which you have vandalised and destroyed.

    We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the unfortunate for food purposes.

    We apologise for developing large farms and properties, which today feed you people, where before, you had the benefits of living off the land and starving during droughts.

    We apologise for providing you with warm clothing made of fabric to replace that animal skins you used before.

    We apologise for building roads and railway tracks between cities and building cars so that you no longer have to walk over harsh terrain.

    We apologise for paying off your vehicle when you fail to pay the instalments

    We apologise for giving you free travel anywhere, whenever.

    We apologise for giving each and every member of your family $100.00 and free travel to attend an aboriginal funeral.

    We apologise for not charging you rent on any lands when white people have to pay.

    We apologise for giving you interest free loans.

    We apologise for developing oil wells and minerals, including gold and diamonds which you never used and had no idea of their value.

    We apologise for developing Ayers rock and Kakadu, and handing them over to you so that you get all the money.

    We apologise for allowing taxpayers money paid towards daughters' wedding ($8,000.00 each daughter)

    We apologise for giving you $1.7 billion per year for your 250,000 people, which is $48,000.00 per aboriginal man, woman and child.

    We apologise for working hard to pay taxes that finance your welfare, medical care, education, etc to the tune of $1.2 billion each year.

    We apologise for you having to approach the aboriginal affairs department to verify the above figures. For the trouble you will have identifying the "uncle toms" in your own community who are getting richer and leaving some of you living in squalor and poverty.

    We do apologise. We really do.

    We humbly beg your forgiveness for all the above sins.

    We are only too happy to take back all the above and return you to the paradise of the "outback", whenever you are ready.
    Was lifted straight off a circulating email.
    While the point of the post maybe how the subject is seen but the Email is in fact race hate mail these type of emails are often seen circulating prior to elections, muslim ones are equally common.

    Anther one;

    I voted for John Howard, since I've been old enough, my family since 1996.

    I could not be prouder of him today, for sticking to his guns and not being a part of todays "theatrics".

    This is what made him a great leader of our nation, he gave the finger to political correctness and did what he believed to be right for Australia.

    KRudd, the elected "leader" of today, gives the finger to our nations needs, and follows the cheap votes.

    Well done voters, well done
    A traditional voter who has come to the conclusion that the pro 'Sorry' voters are in fact cheap
    Curious logic but more importantly negative and to a large extent pointless.

    Moving on;

    Will the relatives of "The Man" apologise to me for the stolen camera and other items from my car.

    I got the camera back when I "made a citizens arrest" of one of the perpetrators but not anything else or the damage to the locks on my Rangie. Although the one who was arrested wanted an apology from me, actually she wanted me arrested for restraining her. Yes she was a first cousin of "The Man".

    Will they also apologise to me for the several episodes of fare evasion when I was driving a taxi?
    This one has nothing to do with the thread subject except for the word 'sorry'.
    So I will attempt to apply the post to the thread.
    Aboriginals are criminals that don't deserve an apology?
    Or i could expand this logic further to,
    The stolen Generations are criminals and don't deserve an apology

    Either conclusion of course is ridiculous, so what then of the purpose of the post.

    And my favorite;

    all the soft skins are going to hate me...

    all the rednecks will love it...

    yall forgot my favorite ones....

    we're sorry that as englishmen we conquested your country, it would have been so much better to allow the dutch to do it, just like tasmania.

    We're sorry we didnt follow the dutch's example in tasmania.



    Did you know that as of 1997 there were still 3 valid aboriginal hunting liscences issued in tasmania that were valid?
    The lampooning of Genocide.
    Yes the humorous side to the extermination of the Tasmanian Aborigine.
    And the preference for this to have taken place on the mainland as well!
    And not a peep from anyone!
    I could go on but I am sure you have heard enough.



    Many of the posts were balanced and proffered in fairness and goodwill but there were quite a few that were not.
    I do not believe mine was the first unreasonable post.

    My other half is an english, history and geography teacher.
    Yesterday she picked up that I was not comfortable with something and after much prodding she viewed the entire thread.
    I am currently in the bad books for even participating in this discussion.
    Her initial reaction was shock that some of the opinions were freely available on the www, the post regarding the genocide of Tasmanian Aboriginals actually made her cry (she is a sensitive thing, one of the reasons I love her)

    In summary I request the Administrator(s) to remove all contributions made by me and also any personal details as I no longer wish to be associated with this forum.

    To quote a hero of mine.
    Goodnight and good luck.
    Paul.

    77 series3 (sold)
    95 300Tdi Ute (sold)
    2003 XTREME Td5

    I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

  6. #176
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    harro, its just a shame i'm not a doctor..... because i'd prescribe you a healthy dose of cement powder

    seriously man, everyone is entitled to thier own opinion, if you dont like it, pay no attention to it

    btw, i said sorry to my dog...... after all, he IS black!

  7. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprint View Post
    harro, its just a shame i'm not a doctor..... because i'd prescribe you a healthy dose of cement powder

    seriously man, everyone is entitled to thier own opinion, if you dont like it, pay no attention to it

    btw, i said sorry to my dog...... after all, he IS black!
    Absolutely disgusting

  8. #178
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    i have locked this as i dont like the way it is descending into personalities.
    2007 Discovery 3 SE7 TDV6 2.7
    2012 SZ Territory TX 2.7 TDCi

    "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- a warning from Adolf Hitler
    "If you don't have a sense of humour, you probably don't have any sense at all!" -- a wise observation by someone else
    'If everyone colludes in believing that war is the norm, nobody will recognize the imperative of peace." -- Anne Deveson
    “What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others.” - Pericles
    "We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” – Ayn Rand
    "The happiness of your life depends upon the quality of your thoughts." Marcus Aurelius

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