Thread: Winch Question

Originally Posted by ak

Hi all. The average weight of a winch is about 42kg, can anyone please tell me what would be the weight of just the steel cable?

It would all depend on how much you were to put on, size of the drum etc. Should be somewhere between 15-20kgs though. I know 20 metres for the hand winch is 15kg on its reel.

Originally Posted by CraigE

It would all depend on how much you were to put on, size of the drum etc. Should be somewhere between 15-20kgs though. I know 20 metres for the hand winch is 15kg on its reel.

Thanks Craige, I guessed it might be about that. Thinking about putting a plasma rope on to cut down on some weight. However at $600 plus for the plasma rope I am thinking real hard.

As in is it worth it, how long will it take me to get it back in fuel costs.

Originally Posted by ak

Thanks Craige, I guessed it might be about that. Thinking about putting a plasma rope on to cut down on some weight. However at $600 plus for the plasma rope I am thinking real hard.

As in is it worth it, how long will it take me to get it back in fuel costs.

you will not notice any differance in driving fuel or anything with plasma rope. Apart from when you come to use it . It is alot more friendly to use than wire. Also does not kink like wire (which then makes a wire rope U/S after that). Also can be put in the washing machine and washed. Which you need to do now and again as mud and sand in it will grind away and make it week., Does not store so much energy as wire so if breaks will not coil back and take your head off. Aslo if it does break you can tie it back to gether to carry on . Also don't techinal need gloves like you do with wire but would still advise to

Also should only fit plasma to a high mount or husky (worm drive) as most of the winch have drum brakes and if you are lwoing down somone or yourself and useing the brake it will heat up and melt the rope . But can fit it to these winchs as long as you make sure you remeber that fact

Originally Posted by Reads90

you will not notice any differance in driving fuel or anything with plasma rope. Apart from when you come to use it . It is alot more friendly to use than wire. Also does not kink like wire (which then makes a wire rope U/S after that). Also can be put in the washing machine and washed. Which you need to do now and again as mud and sand in it will grind away and make it week., Does not store so much energy as wire so if breaks will not coil back and take your head off. Aslo if it does break you can tie it back to gether to carry on . Also don't techinal need gloves like you do with wire but would still advise to

Also should only fit plasma to a high mount or husky (worm drive) as most of the winch have drum brakes and if you are lwoing down somone or yourself and useing the brake it will heat up and melt the rope . But can fit it to these winchs as long as you make sure you remeber that fact

Yes, I just discovered this, as I don't have either looks like the safest bet is to stick with wire. So when you say use the brake you are talking about one continuous pull either in or out without stopping is this correct?

Originally Posted by ak

Yes, I just discovered this, as I don't have either looks like the safest bet is to stick with wire. So when you say use the brake you are talking about one continuous pull either in or out without stopping is this correct?

Nah the brake only really works and gets hot when you are lowering the car down a hill backwards or lowering another car down a hill. That is when the brake works to stopp the cable over running and pulling out too fast


The main use for plasma is on winch challenges where you can do alot more with it than wire (throw it up a hill, wrap it around a bull bar, tye it up when it breaks and so on) and is alot safer
Ali

Thanks mate. Still think them I am better staying with wire to be safe.

When I was winding mine out yesterday and giving it a bit of a mantience spray with lanotec it got me thinking how much easier to handle a rope would be, along with other benfits. However due to melting the rope think I'll give this idea a miss.

Import the plasma from the US....... about $300 landed...

Is This Rope for Real?

A lot of people are hesitant to replace their steel cable with this strange, new stuff. Blue? Yellow? Purple? Green? It looks like a joke! Some say it's not as tough... that the synthetic rope will fray easily and break. Others worry that it's plastic and that heat from the winch will melt it. Price conscience guys have trouble with the high cost. These are valid concerns, but there are good answers.

Tough Stuff

Does synthetic rope fray and break? Yes, but not any more than a steel cable. In many cases, the synthetic stuff can be abused far more than steel and still be safe. Have you ever kinked a steel cable? Of course! Every kink in a steel cable adds a serious weak point to an already dangerous product. The synthetic rope doesn't care how it's bent, kinked or abused. It's tough and it bounces right back into shape. Some fraying is to be expected, but the strength is reduced only incrementally compared to the huge number of fine fibers. Previous testing by 4x4Wire showed the synthetic rope actually wearing away the edge of a steel fairlead!

Sure, it's tough, but why wear the rope when it's not necessary? A nifty wear guard can be had when purchasing the X-Line. ORO's version can be taken on and off thanks to a full-length velcro edge. Some people take their guard on and off, but I leave my wear guard on all the time. It simply rolls up inside the winch, protecting the end of the X-Line even when the winch isn't being used.


Will the plastic rope melt on a hot winch drum? Yes or No, depending on which product you're talking about. Heat is a real concern, but only with the UHMWPE, which has a melting temperature of 284° F, and a critical temperature (the point at which the rope starts to weaken) of only 150° F. The drum of a Warn winch can be expected to reach temperatures well over 200° F (one source says as high as 300° F). The Technora aramid fiber-based X-Line rope does not begin to decompose until over 900° F, and X-Line can be used at nearly 400° F for long periods of time without loss of strength. At last, a winch product that doesn't have heat as an Achilles heel!

Sun Damage

Untreated, both UHMWPE and X-Line will degrade in the sun and can lose as much as half their strength when exposed to direct sun for three months. Both products, however, are coated with a UV polyurethane protective coating. I'm keeping my winch line out of the sun whenever possible, but X-Line's coating will protect it. The untreated X-Line is yellow... about the same color as a sticky note. (The original color can be exposed by pulling apart the fibers.) The UV coating turns it a nice dark green.

Rope Length and Extension

I opted for a 100' rope for my winch, compared to the standard 125' steel cable that ships with the XD9000i. With the shorter length, I can winch closer to the drum, giving me a better pull... more pounds with fewer electrical amps. Less rope on the drum also means I can bunch it up during a side pull without worrying about jamming the drum. If I need more cable, I reach for the 50' winch extension. I can use the extra piece for either increased line length for myself or for other guys who still have the steel cable. By using my synthetic X-Line on the end of a steel cable, we can unspool less steel, reducing the chance of a broken-cable injury.
Spooling out the X-Line on the Fordyce Trail. Bryan was wedged badly between two bolders. ORO stainless steel d-ring next to a galvanized d-ring.
X-Line to the rescue again. This time we're on the Fordyce Trail for Sierra Trek 2002. We were able to work around the stuck rig without worrying about a broken cable injury.
ORO's stainless steel d-rings (left) rule! They don't jamb, so you never need tools to open them. Notice the large diameter and big opening.

Rope Elongation and Stretch Myth

Winch cable backlash is a major concern for anyone working with it or close to it. A broken steel cable can be deadly. Why? We've all heard the same thing, that steel is dangerous because it stretches. And that synthetic rope, either UHMWPE or X-Line, is safe because it does not stretch. Correct? I don't think so. The danger from steel cable comes from its weight, not the stretch.

Steel stretches... as much as 1.7% elongation at break, but that's less than synthetic. Compare that to X-Line's 4.6% elongation at break (14,000 lbs. for the 5/16" dia. rope). That would make X-Line more dangerous, but it isn't. Let me dust off some book learnin' from way back. Energy is mass times velocity squared, E=MV?. The weight (M) plays a direct (not squared) role in the energy equation. The velocity (V) of the rope is a bigger factor because it's squared, yet the lighter rope just drops dead on break. There must be a physical property we're not considering. How about... what's it called... snap? Snap factor. How quickly does the elongated mass return to its original dimension when the tension is released? I'll wager steel returns to its original length almost instantly, which would create a massive acceleration in a large mass. Synthetic rope (educated guessing here) probably returns slowly. The slow acceleration and light weight create no energy. The rope drops harmlessly.

The notion that synthetic rope does not stretch has a basis in truth, I think, when compared to traditional nylon and polyester ropes. Those old-technology products have much higher stretch figures and vastly lower strengths.

UHMWPE differs here, because it stretches less than X-Line. UHMWPE has an elongation of only 0.79% at 30% of breaking strength (that's about 4,200 lbs. pull). X-Line's stretch is 1.2% at the same tension, or about 50% higher. Is the additional stretch a problem? Probably not. Remember that the synthetic rope has a much higher breaking strength than steel, so the large amount of stretch will not be seen in real life.




List per Maker of rope. Compared to similar sized Wire Cable

Make Size / Diameter Minimum Breaking Strength
Master-Pull Superline 7/16" 40,000lb.
Master-Pull Winch Line 7/16" 32,000lb.
Amsteel® Blue 7/16" 21,533lb.
Technora® 7/16 25.000lb.
Vectran® 7/16" 21,000lb.
Plasma® 7/16" 21,000lb.
Spectra® 7/16" 14,800lb.
Wire cable 7/16" 17,600lb.


Master-Pull ™ Superline 3/8" 26,500lb.
Master-Pull ™ Winch Line 3/8" 18,000lb.
Amsteel® Blue 3/8" 17,640lb.
Technora® 3/8" 17,500lb.
Vectran® 3/8" 17,500lb.
Plasma® 3/8" 17,500lb.
Spectra® 3/8" 13,900lb.
Wire cable 3/8" 14,400lb.


Master-Pull ™ Superline 5/16" 21,000lb.
Master-Pull ™ Winch Line 5/16" 13,000lb.
Amsteel® Blue 5/16" 12,330lb.
Vectran® 5/16" 11,700lb.
Plasma® 5/16" 11,700lb.
Spectra® 5/16" 9,000lb.
Wire cable 5/16" 9,800lb.

robbed off our own forum HB4X4