Thread: A marketing opportunity missed

Originally Posted by rmp

2. Please understand Land Rover is now a premium brand. They are not, repeat not, interested in taking on Toyota in the ute/basic market. So get over it. Yes, they should have been, lots of bad decisions over the years, agree with all of that, lost potential etc etc, but that's unfortunate history. As someone said, LR is as interested in the non-premium market as Jaguar, by an amazing conincidece.

This may change with Tata at the reins.

Funny you should mention BMW and Merc. Merc make the G-wagen, the Unimog, etc... According to my info, the reason Merc won the contract to supply the next generation of Australian army vehicles is that 1 manufacturer could supply every size of vehicle, and they would use common filters and lubricants.

A company like Tata can do that, since they make large AWD trucks as well, and LR still has quite a good reputation as a military vehicle. Military contracts are worth good money.

There is no easy answer.I would like to see defenders everywhere but then they would be just another vehicle. Pat

Originally Posted by JohnE

interesting thread, some very valid points, but why is it that when anyone on here bags a landrover they almost always become a toyota lover. Even as a joke it is starting to wear thin.

I have had 4 toyotas and a mitsubishi and am a toyota lover !!!! I never spent the same amount of time under them as I have with the landrover.

Landrovers aren;t the ducks guts,they are the ultimate POS, when compared to a landcruiser.
they are a vehicle that certain people take a fancy to and I am one of them,
not because they are technologically brilliant
not because they are the best off road vehicle that can be found,
not because the power to weight is fantastic,
not because the ride is brilliant
its because they have a certain something that I like.Thats why I have them and enjoy working on them
Each unto their own.

Some of you make out the land rover is the bee knees, we all know its not, thats why there are so many headings on here on how to fix the bloody things when something leaks, breaks, or generally doesn;t work.

And on other marques, someone could correct me if i am wrong, but don;t some of the larger overseas vehicle manufacturers do their prototype testing in the outback.
And landrover do theirs in the factory backyard to duplicate world conditions!!




john

Get out of my laptop!

Tim

Originally Posted by JohnE

interesting thread, some very valid points, but why is it that when anyone on here bags a landrover they almost always become a toyota lover. Even as a joke it is starting to wear thin.

I have had 4 toyotas and a mitsubishi and am a toyota lover !!!! I never spent the same amount of time under them as I have with the landrover.

Landrovers aren;t the ducks guts,they are the ultimate POS, when compared to a landcruiser.
they are a vehicle that certain people take a fancy to and I am one of them,
not because they are technologically brilliant
not because they are the best off road vehicle that can be found,
not because the power to weight is fantastic,
not because the ride is brilliant
its because they have a certain something that I like.Thats why I have them and enjoy working on them
Each unto their own.

Some of you make out the land rover is the bee knees, we all know its not, thats why there are so many headings on here on how to fix the bloody things when something leaks, breaks, or generally doesn;t work.

And on other marques, someone could correct me if i am wrong, but don;t some of the larger overseas vehicle manufacturers do their prototype testing in the outback.
And landrover do theirs in the factory backyard to duplicate world conditions!!




john

John,
I think reading between the lines of your post I probably agree. What I'd add though is the following.
Land Rover owners tend not to be as one eyed about their cars, they recognise the failings. Toyota owners in particular tend to be extremely tunnel vision in this respect.
Any 4WD when used in harsh conditions needs a lot more up keep. In my experience Toyota's are often the most expensive for parts if you have to go genuine OEM.
Forums are a great place to read about everyone's problems more often than their lack of them.
I think we are seeing Toyota relying on its reputation a lot for the last few years. The new Hilux and LC70's build quality (well those at work) is very poor in comparison to their predecessors. And as for their price well that's one way of ensuring a good second hand market for the older model.

Originally Posted by rmp

Some points.

1. The TDV6 shouldn't be in the Defender. The Puma engine is designed for slogging all day long with heavy loads on anything resembling diesel fuel, year in year out, remember it's the Transit engine which tradies rely on. That's why it only puts out 90kw from 2.4l. Still, Puma-powered Defenders move along quite nicely indeed thank you. First time I drove one I said it was a "Defender Sport". If you feel you want more power I suggest a driving course is could be in order.

The TDV6 is designed for higher power, smoother performance; 140kw from 2.7l. A different cc/kw ratio you'll notice. Given you can't have everything I'd be willing to bet some tradeoffs have been made, and the Puma would be chugging away years after the TDV6 dies in an expensive way. I know for sure it's more sensitive to fuel quality, and I think the servicing/parts costs would be an interesting comparison.

If you want to scoot around at high speed buy an RRS. If you want to lug heavy loads, economically, all day long, anywhere, buy a Defender. If you're not sure, buy a D3.

But either way, don't complain about one not being the other.


2. Please understand Land Rover is now a premium brand. They are not, repeat not, interested in taking on Toyota in the ute/basic market. So get over it. Yes, they should have been, lots of bad decisions over the years, agree with all of that, lost potential etc etc, but that's unfortunate history. As someone said, LR is as interested in the non-premium market as Jaguar, by an amazing conincidece.

The Defender is an embarrassment to LR now. They can't ditch it, but it's expensive to redevelop it. It's not a big money maker. But it's a halo, an icon. Their hearts want to do something with it, but their heads make them focus on FL hybrid, RR replacement, D3 mid-life, V8 RRS, LRX etc first and the project seems to slip and slip.


IMHO.

This is exactly the same thinking IMHO as LandRovers. Its also the reason why sales are so deficient. If they could triple their sales in Aus then they would - but they're too arrogent to be led by the market. Durability and power, Power and economy, reliability and cost, and utility and comfort are not mutually exclusive. But those that get it right seem to prosper, and those that don't either fail or become "niche" vehicles. Maintaining an Icon doesn't pay the bills, so it'll be interesting to see what the next Defender is like, which I thought that I'd heard will be based on the D3 style of platform, and hopefully with the TDV8 with SRS and all of the other good gear.

Originally Posted by Slunnie

This is exactly the same thinking IMHO as LandRovers. Its also the reason why sales are so deficient. If they could triple their sales in Aus then they would - but they're too arrogent to be led by the market. Durability and power, Power and economy, reliability and cost, and utility and comfort are not mutually exclusive. But those that get it right seem to prosper, and those that don't either fail or become "niche" vehicles. Maintaining an Icon doesn't pay the bills, so it'll be interesting to see what the next Defender is like, which I thought that I'd heard will be based on the D3 style of platform, and hopefully with the TDV8 with SRS and all of the other good gear.

Land Rover will argue their move into the luxury market has paid dividend as they are profitable for the first time in many years. You can also argue the reason for their arrogance and the market they have chosen to pursue is exactly the reason why many of us drive a Land Rover. If I wanted another reliable Jap machine of which there are thousands on the road and inspires thoughts of watching the paint dry .. I would happily purchase a Toyota, Nissan or Mitsubishi .. who all seem rather similar in their dullness.

I have around 15 - 20 mates who all own a 4WD. Although this is not a exhaustive study by any means - I find the Jap owners are all intellectual guys, with good incomes and look for a reliable, comfortable 4x4 which doesn't require too much maintenance or tinkering. At the opposite of that, every LR mate or LR owner I have met are DIY types who like to tinker with their vehicles. They have a wide background from highly qualified professionals to tradies. I make the conclusion that one group is very much a "car enthusiast" where as the other group are "car users". There are always exceptions to the rule but you get my point.

Take the Land Rover for what it is .. in many ways if they became a mass produced product I strongly believe that they would lose their appeal.

Originally Posted by Greylandy

Land Rover will argue their move into the luxury market has paid dividend as they are profitable for the first time in many years. You can also argue the reason for their arrogance and the market they have chosen to pursue is exactly the reason why many of us drive a Land Rover. If I wanted another reliable Jap machine of which there are thousands on the road and inspires thoughts of watching the paint dry .. I would happily purchase a Toyota, Nissan or Mitsubishi .. who all seem rather similar in their dullness.

I have around 15 - 20 mates who all own a 4WD. Although this is not a exhaustive study by any means - I find the Jap owners are all intellectual guys, with good incomes and look for a reliable, comfortable 4x4 which doesn't require too much maintenance or tinkering. At the opposite of that, every LR mate or LR owner I have met are DIY types who like to tinker with their vehicles. They have a wide background from highly qualified professionals to tradies. I make the conclusion that one group is very much a "car enthusiast" where as the other group are "car users". There are always exceptions to the rule but you get my point.

Take the Land Rover for what it is .. in many ways if they became a mass produced product I strongly believe that they would lose their appeal.

That may change with the next Defender.....