Hoon caught doing 170 in 100 zone.

**JDNSW** · 10th January 2009, 06:04 AM

Originally Posted by Sprint

1: regardless of wether you're in a hurry or not, its common courtesy to travel at the posted speed limit, anyone who wants to speed, its thier problem, they want to break the law, they can overtake you, just because you're not in a hurry is no reason to get in the way of other law abiding road users

It may be courtesy, but there is no requirement in law to do so and in NSW at least there are classes of drivers that are prohibited by law from exceeding 80 or 90 or 100 regardless of the speed limit - and these apply to those drivers regardless of which state they are driving in, and quite severe penalties apply. It is worth remembering that until quite recently a speed limit of 80kph applied in NSW to all trailers over 750kg. (a fruitful source of revenue from interstate visitors I recall)

2:if you are so serious about seeing the countryside, pull over from your dawdling and admire the countryside, it'll give the dozen cars and trucks that have been jammed behind you for the past half hour to get past and get on with thier day.

A significant proportion of this country's two lane highways have no safe place to pull over, especially if you are towing a large caravan, which makes this rather difficult to do. In my experience most slow vehicles are quite obliging in doing their best to allow others to pass, and I cannot recall any example of being stuck behind a slow vehicle for as long as half an hour.

The concept that driving at the fastest legal speed because you slept in has priority over appreciating natural beauty is something that I have trouble coming to terms with. Maybe it is also courteous (albeit not so common) to realise that everyone in this world is not in a tearing hurry all the time.

The point that some seem to be missing is that the posted speed limit is just that, a limit (Some overseas countries commonly have minimum speeds as well as maximums, usually around 70% of the limit, and only on freeways, but I cannot recall any examples in Australia - if they exist they must be rare). While many car drivers expect to travel at that limit, there is no legal requirement for all vehicles to do so, and quite a few are not capable of doing so in all circumstances (some, such as tractors, agricultural machinery and some vintage cars may not be capable of it in any circumstances), and anyone who expects all traffic to travel at the speed limit, and comes round a corner in the expectation that anyone travelling in their direction will be doing the same speed is driving dangerously - there could be an accident, breakdown, animal, vehicle slowing to turn into a gate, etc on the road, as well as a slow vehicle.

A further point that needs to be made is that with some states applying severe penalties for even small margins above the limit, enforced by numerous speed cameras, you can hardly blame drivers (particularly those with no points left to lose) who prefer to err well on the side of caution. Add the speedo error (Which is required to show a speed higher than the actual speed), and they may be well below the posted limit.

Another point is that, taking for example the highway nearest here, there are advisory speed signs on curves as much as 20kph below the posted speed limit. Are you seriously suggesting that just because you have the type of car, tyres and skills to keep to the limit round these bends that everyone should? In all conditions?

John

(I should point out that I mostly travel at or very close to the speed limit in the 110 (unless towing a large trailer), but usually 90 or less that in the 2a unless travelling long distances.)

**87County** · 10th January 2009, 06:35 AM

There seems to be a major misconception, both on this site and generally, that the signed speed is the speed which one should be travel at.. this is NOT so!

The signed speed is merely a speed which one should not exceed!

The signed speeds regularly fail to take account of road conditions, weather (slippery roads), blind corners, driver ability, time of day (eg black cattle not being seen until inside the stopping distance at night), and vehicle preservation (eg. rough and broken surfaces)... all proven by the number of "accidents" which generally are not accidents but driver error crashes.

If drivers think they must drive at or above the speed "limit" in inappropriate conditions, then lets reduce the speed limits generally - when this was done in the US (to 50mph in their first "oil shock") the rate of accidents and fuel consumption dropped dramatically...

In fact a speed limit of 85/90kph and more unbroken double lines would suit me just fine...

..........my 2c worth (and that's what most of you will think of it I guess)

**Sprint** · 10th January 2009, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by JDNSW

quite a few are not capable of doing so in all circumstances (some, such as tractors, agricultural machinery and some vintage cars may not be capable of it in any circumstances), and anyone who expects all traffic to travel at the speed limit, and comes round a corner in the expectation that anyone travelling in their direction will be doing the same speed is driving dangerously - there could be an accident, breakdown, animal, vehicle slowing to turn into a gate, etc on the road, as well as a slow vehicle.

its one thing to be unable to do the posted speed limit due to legal or physical restrictions, its something totally different to be so arrogant, ignorant and inconsiderate to deliberately travel at a lower speed than the posted speed limit in suitable conditions

JDNSW, i'm simply having a vent about the GOF's who cruise down the highway at 60-80, i have no issue with slowing down for wildlife, accidents/breakdowns, etc

87County, i'm a firm believer in driving to conditions, so you wont get any argument from em on that matter, but if some GOF wants to tow his pop top caravan down the highway at 60 (yes, ive had to deal with it repeatedly) why not crush his car and burn his licence? its just as dangerous, if not more than 40 over the limit

Originally Posted by CraigE

And your statement on fuel economy is absolute crap. It is impossible to return better fuel consumption with cruise on at 125 than with cruise on at 110. RPM is the factor.

not quite true, the fuel efficiency of the engine and wind resistance of the vehicle play a big part in it too, if the engine isnt working at an efficient RPM, it will be trying to burn more fuel to maintain 100km/h because of the load it is being subjected to, wind resistance is a factor because different shapes and speeds affect drag and at what affect it has on the vehicle at any given speed

just as a thought, ive done the same 300km trip in the same car, a week apart,

first time at a constant 100km/h, averaged 10.8L/100km
second time at an average 150km/h, averaged 11.3L/100km

wouldnt you think the 150km/h average would have a much higher average fuel consumption?

and please people, i know it was stupid and dangerous, so spare me the lectures please

powella · 10th January 2009, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by JDNSW

Exactly. And freeways represent a tiny proportion of the highways in Australia with speed limits of 100+.

There is no requirement in any road rules to travel at the posted speed limit - it is just that, a limit, not a minimum. It may be courteous to travel at or close to it, but it is not a legal requirement, and there is no requirement that all vehicles should be capable of travelling at that speed limit.

John

FYI from RTA:
125 Unreasonably obstructing drivers or pedestrians

(1) A driver must not unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or a pedestrian.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

Note. Driver includes a person in control of a vehicle—see the definition of drive in the Dictionary.

(2) For this rule, a driver does not unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or a pedestrian only because:

(a) the driver is stopped in traffic, or

(b) the driver is driving more slowly than other vehicles (unless the driver is driving abnormally slowly in the circumstances).

Example of a driver driving abnormally slowly. A driver driving at a speed of 20 kilometres per hour on a length of road to which a speed limit of 80 kilometres per hour applies when there is no reason for the driver to drive at that speed on the length of road.

So if there is no reason, there is a "rule" which does apply, so it is a question around what is reasonable.

Cheers,
AP

**Blknight.aus** · 10th January 2009, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Tombie2

Actually John there are LAWS against this (unless the vehicle is restricted to a lower speed)...

Its called "impeding the flow of traffic"

Any vehicle rated to tow a large van should be able to sit close to the speed limit and therefore should do same!

A vintage vehicle etc, that cannot maintain speeds of a zone must by law YIELD and allow all traffic to pass when safe to do so...
This legally means he has to pull off the highway every time someone gets stuck behind him and there is a shoulder on the road.

To give you some further evidence of this law...

South Eastern Freeway...
My mate and I left Hahndorf back in 1998 heading to adelaide and drove side by side at 140km/h blocking the ability of an aggravated Porsche driver to pass us.

He finally slipped up the emergency lane and got past! And was promptly pursued and pulled over the by Cops that had been watching all of this.

We were also pulled over...

The Porsche got improper use of emergency lane, dangerous driving charges..

Both my mate and I were charged with 'Impeding the flow of traffic'

When we argued that we were above the speed limit (110 zone) by a decent margin, how could it be impeding traffic? The friendly officer advised us that the speed made no difference, we still impeded the flow

So yes, I hate slow moving vehicles... And Grey Nomads are some of the worst....

its a very brave officer who pulls out the impeding the flow of traffic rule these days and to my knowledge theres only about 10 roads in australia with posted minimum road speeds and most of these are primary freeways that clog up with congestion during peak hour traffic...

Imagine the cops having a go with that and the revenue they could create.

yes mr tombie2 you were caught in perth at 0830, 0840 and 0850 on 3 seperate supernovas on the jperth-joondalup freeway doing less that the prescribed minimum of 80kph that will be $450 in fines and would normaly only be 6 demerit points but as its christmas and were on double demerit points just hand your license in.

**Bigbjorn** · 10th January 2009, 08:01 AM

The Pacific Highway, the Newell Highway, and the Bruce Highway in the terrorist season are a sore trial to truckies, sales reps and others who travel frequently. The onset of cold weather, usually about late April, in the southern states brings out the caravans and the mobile homes, known to generations of truckies as "terrorists", a play on "tourists". Often long strings of them are sighted travelling at 80km/h or less on stretches with limits of 100-110 km/h. Few have the courtesy to look in their mirrors at the line of frustrated drivers of vehicles caught behind them and pull over to allow other traffic to get moving. This is why the regular road users loathe them with great passion.

**CaverD3** · 10th January 2009, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Tombie2

South Eastern Freeway...
My mate and I left Hahndorf back in 1998 heading to adelaide and drove side by side at 140km/h blocking the ability of an aggravated Porsche driver to pass us.

He finally slipped up the emergency lane and got past! And was promptly pursued and pulled over the by Cops that had been watching all of this.

We were also pulled over...

The Porsche got improper use of emergency lane, dangerous driving charges..

Both my mate and I were charged with 'Impeding the flow of traffic'

When we argued that we were above the speed limit (110 zone) by a decent margin, how could it be impeding traffic? The friendly officer advised us that the speed made no difference, we still impeded the flow

So yes, I hate slow moving vehicles... And Grey Nomads are some of the worst....

Sorry your mate deserved what he got. There is a law keep left unless overtaking applies on all deivided roads posted greater than 80kph and here sined 'keep left unless overtaking'.
Your mate deliberately agrivated another driver and contributed to road rage. If you were behind two slow vehicles taking up two lanes you wouls not like it either.
Keepin left on all divided roads is good road manners and helps traffic flow. Australians have very poor lane dicipline drive in continental Europe and you will notice the difference.

**Phred** · 10th January 2009, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

The Pacific Highway, the Newell Highway, and the Bruce Highway in the terrorist season are a sore trial to truckies, sales reps and others who travel frequently. The onset of cold weather, usually about late April, in the southern states brings out the caravans and the mobile homes, known to generations of truckies as "terrorists", a play on "tourists". Often long strings of them are sighted travelling at 80km/h or less on stretches with limits of 100-110 km/h. Few have the courtesy to look in their mirrors at the line of frustrated drivers of vehicles caught behind them and pull over to allow other traffic to get moving. This is why the regular road users loathe them with great passion.

As someone who is out there in a double doing 5-6000km a week i have to say that the caravan terrorists are nowhere as bad as they used to be. A bit of education in teaching how to get trucks past at caravan shows and in the media has done a world of good.
As for the speed thing the most dangerous time in my job- Hume Freeway between Benalla and Euroa around 2-3:00 am speed limited at 100kph good road bad time mind numbingly boring!!!
Peter

Tombie · 10th January 2009, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

yes mr tombie2 you were caught in perth at 0830, 0840 and 0850 on 3 seperate supernovas on the jperth-joondalup freeway doing less that the prescribed minimum of 80kph that will be $450 in fines and would normaly only be 6 demerit points but as its christmas and were on double demerit points just hand your license in.

But.. But... But... I sold THAT vehicle to Blknights Dad.... It wasnt me driving your honour!

Tombie · 10th January 2009, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by CaverD3

Sorry your mate deserved what he got. There is a law keep left unless overtaking applies on all deivided roads posted greater than 80kph and here sined 'keep left unless overtaking'.
Your mate deliberately agrivated another driver and contributed to road rage. If you were behind two slow vehicles taking up two lanes you wouls not like it either.
Keepin left on all divided roads is good road manners and helps traffic flow. Australians have very poor lane dicipline drive in continental Europe and you will notice the difference.

My mate did hey? And I did also? Well OK...

BTW.. Back in those days there was no such Bull$hit called "Road Rage"

Considering the speed WE were doing and the speed the Porsche caught up to us, I'd say WE did the public a service by holding him back..
Something we did deliberately after discussing it on the CB between cars to slow the w@nker down...

As for keep left over 80.... I'm often the one in the right line to pass the slower cars.. Particularly when I was in Vic/Melbourne... They're so damn paranoid about Fines they seem to all sit 5-10k under the limit over there!

And I have driven Europe... Cant say they drive any better or worse....

I say bring in $3000 driver licensing like they have in certain countries..
Huge penalties for offences including mandatory "go to jail" times for serious stuff...

3rd time loser penalties for certain offences.. eg.. Jail, Car crushed, Banned from driving for life

And as a recent GOVERNMENT survey has discovered.. Our Nat Highways do NOT meet the MINIMUM safety rating required...

So until they do something.. Sue them.... Duty of Care

That will get them moving.......

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