Thread: Would you Aussies put up with this?

Originally Posted by shinz

I actually think this last paragraph probably says best what I was thought I was trying to say initially, maybe I'm being a bit alarmist, but with all thats going on in the world today, I'm wondering if the global community isn't looking a bit shakey & Brians musings even more relevant.
Steve

You have a Valid point in some respects, but current thinking is that any military action would be for a limited time period. There for Australian manufacturing or the protection of Australian manufacturing is also limited to a few select areas. Flip the coin over if every country was dependant on every othere country then the option for armed conflict would not exist.
Having said that there have been some resent blunders. The first 2 that come to mind are. The Australian army getting its bullets from Indonesia. Not a smart move during the early days of ET. Or Indonesia buying some nice new fighters from the Yanks ( same time as Australia did) but they got a factory to build them as well, Australia got ficked off with a pile of second-hand rebuilt F111 that had spent the last few years sitting in a desert. But they were realy realy cheep.

But even here the idea that a Holden factory can change over to making Tanks is really a joke. But to follow your real point and update it to today’s real requirements, is the retention in this country of Knowledge and a good level of education. These 2 in themselves would be our major advantage if we were looking at an invasion force running up some gold cost beach. Population is certainly not in our favour. We just don’t have the body’s to put under arms and into manufacturing and food production at the same time.

As for the Global economy, its actually a bit stronger or more inter twined, dependent even. The Key to understanding the big picture is to understand the thinking’s and history of the best educated American President that the USA has ever had. Along with the passing out of the last of the ex military WW2 influences ( due to age) from American international politics. if you understand how the oil shocks of the 70s were managed, and how they came about and finally resolved. Apply that to today’s scenario abet with a few different players but the problems are the same, the solution is like the next phase. The hardest part for most Australians is to understand the current or recent global securities threat which has lead us all into this manufactured recession we have today.

Originally Posted by clean32

You have a Valid point in some respects, but current thinking is that any military action would be for a limited time period. There for Australian manufacturing or the protection of Australian manufacturing is also limited to a few select areas. Flip the coin over if every country was dependant on every othere country then the option for armed conflict would not exist.
Having said that there have been some resent blunders. The first 2 that come to mind are. The Australian army getting its bullets from Indonesia. Not a smart move during the early days of ET. Or Indonesia buying some nice new fighters from the Yanks ( same time as Australia did) but they got a factory to build them as well, Australia got ficked off with a pile of second-hand rebuilt F111 that had spent the last few years sitting in a desert. But they were realy realy cheep.

But even here the idea that a Holden factory can change over to making Tanks is really a joke. But to follow your real point and update it to today’s real requirements, is the retention in this country of Knowledge and a good level of education. These 2 in themselves would be our major advantage if we were looking at an invasion force running up some gold cost beach. Population is certainly not in our favour. We just don’t have the body’s to put under arms and into manufacturing and food production at the same time.

As for the Global economy, its actually a bit stronger or more inter twined, dependent even. The Key to understanding the big picture is to understand the thinking’s and history of the best educated American President that the USA has ever had. Along with the passing out of the last of the ex military WW2 influences ( due to age) from American international politics. if you understand how the oil shocks of the 70s were managed, and how they came about and finally resolved. Apply that to today’s scenario abet with a few different players but the problems are the same, the solution is like the next phase. The hardest part for most Australians is to understand the current or recent global securities threat which has lead us all into this manufactured recession we have today.

It wasn't so much the military aspect of the world I refered to, in todays conflicts, there is no place for citizen armies & make shift solutions, unless of course you a sunni or taliban extremeist. I was rather thinking of the lose of infrastructure if everything is parceled out overseas & the lack of opportunites to create & train into a skill base for our young, but mainly the need to retain a certain operating base within ones own country. Theres little point in having all your important functions & industries overseas in cheap labour third world contries if their systems could go "tips" up. I'm aware that in the pure model of globalisation we will eventually get to the situation where all nations are so codependent on each other that conflict, both commercial as well as military is virtually impossible but we're a generation or so away from that nirvana & I think it is wise for any nation to retain a basic strategic base of skills & industry. It fails to do this at its peril.
Steve

Originally Posted by clean32

But even here the idea that a Holden factory can change over to making Tanks is really a joke. .

The manufacturing processes are exactly the same. Casting, forging, pressing, machining, welding, assembly. The skills required are the same and are in place as is most of the machinery. The jigs and fixtures will be new but the tool and die skills and machines exist. The factory areas would need much modification to accomodate bigger and heavier lumps, but not difficult. Abdul and Tran would still be standing on the line with their air tools just putting different bits on different vehicles. Look at what was achieved by industry in WWII in a relatively short period.

Originally Posted by 303gunner

I remember in the 1980's when a pair of Levi's jeans was $80-90, when an American-made Apple IIe computer was $600, a Rank Arena 63cm TV was $1499 and a Black & Decker Drill was $159. Now we find Chinese made Jeans for $19, computers that are way faster than a IIe for $699, a 63cm LCD TV for $599 and a GMC drill for $14.99. And those prices are in 2009 dollars, not 1983 dollars. I don't know where you shop, but if you have not seen reduced prices or improved quality since the change from Tariff-protected "made in Australia" days to the current global economy, free trade days, then you've been missing something.

I bet those $19 dollar jeans didn't have a Levis tag on them and if they did then they were pirate copies. How much does it cost for a pair of levis today? A lot more than $80-90 and they are most likely made in China I'm sure. As for all your other arguments you're comparing lemons and apples. eg. with computers, prices can drop dramatically due to the increased need and the ability then to mass produce. Try and buy a current apple laptop or desktop for $600 today. Most of their parts are probably built in china also but they don't cost less!

Originally Posted by XSiV

I bet those $19 dollar jeans didn't have a Levis tag on them and if they did then they were pirate copies. How much does it cost for a pair of levis today? A lot more than $80-90 and they are most likely made in China I'm sure. As for all your other arguments you're comparing lemons and apples. eg. with computers, prices can drop dramatically due to the increased need and the ability then to mass produce. Try and buy a current apple laptop or desktop for $600 today. Most of their parts are probably built in china also but they don't cost less!

Last pair of Levis I owned were made in Fiji! Lasted less than 1 year, $19 specials now, just as good if not better.

Originally Posted by V8Ian

Last pair of Levis I owned were made in Fiji! Lasted less than 1 year, $19 specials now, just as good if not better.

How much did you pay for the levis?

Originally Posted by XSiV

How much did you pay for the levis?

I don't recall the exact price ($100 ish) but they were the same price as the real Levis. I didn't know they were made in Fiji untill I got home.

Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

The manufacturing processes are exactly the same. Casting, forging, pressing, machining, welding, assembly. The skills required are the same and are in place as is most of the machinery. The jigs and fixtures will be new but the tool and die skills and machines exist. The factory areas would need much modification to accomodate bigger and heavier lumps, but not difficult. Abdul and Tran would still be standing on the line with their air tools just putting different bits on different vehicles. Look at what was achieved by industry in WWII in a relatively short period.

Rubbish, manufacturing a car now days is all about logistics. Open the box from china screw it on, open the next box and screw that on etc. The idea that casting or worse that Australia has the capabilities to cast ( Australia never has had) weapons grade material really is in fantasy land. I believe the biggest tundish in Australia is 60 ton, remove the slag etc I would take a guess and say the biggest casting we could produce would be about 10 ton and there would be no way that that could even get close to something usable as a Tank. Even the Navy has greatly diminished there passive defence ( armour ) and replaced it with active ( electronics). And before some one chips in, aussie frigates, most of what you can see on them are made in NZ.
Knowledge and education as I said before is the Key.