White tail spider bites

**scrambler** · 11th December 2009, 07:39 PM

If i could give (one) doctor's view:

White tail spider bites are a bit like the Abominable Snowman crossed with a Snow Leopard. Either the thing is out there and mighty hard to find using conventional techniques, or it's not there at all.

My understanding is that the CURRENT state of knowledge is that the White Tail Spider does NOT have a necrotising venom, but that the cause of the severe pain, swelling, ulcers etc is a soil bacterium (bug for the non-medical). The bacterium could be present on the jaws of the WTS or on other spider species or possibly on non-spider species, or maybe even just in the soil and getting into a cut.

This "current state of knowledge" only dates back to the article reported above - before that the WTS was a "known" cause of ulcers. Many GPs would not be aware of the change (though most would).

Prior to groundbreaking research from two WA doctors, everybody in the world knew that stress was the leading cause of stomach ulcers. If you spoke to your GP about your ulcer in the 1980's he (they were almost all male, then) would have told you to reduce your stress. Now she (most medical graduates now are female) would prescribe a course of antibiotics. Most stomach ulcers are due to a bacterial infection.

The moral here is - just because your doctor tells you something doesn't mean it's true. And if it's not true they may still be giving you the best knowedge available at the time, though later evidence proves them wrong.

Maybe some day a WTS which DOES cause ulcers will be found. But despite what people have been told, the best evidence at present says it's a bacterium, possibly (though not certainly) a hitch-hiker.

d@rk51d3 · 11th December 2009, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by snowbound

I'm a proffesional pesty, yes they bite, yes it can be nasty! worst thing about them is they are aggresive, they tend to get you in the bed as they are nochternal hunters. Get the house treated by a COMPETENT pesty. If you are in the canberra area PM me and I will help you out.

It can be quite unsettling to turn off the bedside lamp, then turn it back on again 30 seconds later, to find a white-tail running down the wall towards you, only to see the light back on, and turn and run away again.

**Lucus** · 11th December 2009, 11:49 PM

Ah necrosis, I remember it well.

i was bitten by a "spider" In the Pilbara region whilst working on a dozer at one of the Yandi minesites. I developed a small red pimple that turned into an ulcerated sore that would develop to the size of a 50c coin with skin necorsis around the edge and in the centre of the sore.

At once stage i was up to 11 of these things on my legs and lower body.It took a solid 12 months of treatment by Perth #1 micro biologist (Dr Clay Golledge)

They never did work out what the "spider" was but Dr Golledge was of the opinion that it didnt really matter what spider it was, it was the fact it hadnt brushed its teat or flossed in a long long time...

i could post up pictures but its pretty gross and still makes my stomach turn and eyes water.

12 months of antibiotics destroyed my stomach. I used to be able to eat and drink anything i like, now most diary is off the radar, so is wheat products ie beer...... A couple of six packs used to be an easy task, now three beers gives me the mother of all gut aches the next day.

I dont know what the bug was but i reckon it was a bewdy!

**p38arover** · 12th December 2009, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by Lucus

i was bitten by a "spider" In the Pilbara region whilst working on a dozer at one of the Yandi minesites. \

Better than being bitten in the groin region!

**Disco44** · 12th December 2009, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by Numpty's Missus

they are pretty standard type words....I suppose you do own a dictionary?

so....in plain English then......

"Sorry Mrs LMR but unless you saw the spider and actually got it indenified there is no way you can say, it was without a doubt, a white tailed spider. Nor can your doctor.

I have also seen tick bites end up ~~necrosed~~ causing skin & muscle death and requiring ~~surgical debridement~~ an operation and ~~hospitilisation~~ a stay in hospital

There are many things that could have bitten you"

OK?

OH...and I took the reply as sarcasm so have counter replied likewise (get the dictionary out if you don't understand)

Twas not meant that .Sorry if you took it that way.
John

**Lotz-A-Landies** · 12th December 2009, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by p38arover

Better than being bitten in the groin region!

Of course you could be bitten in djibouti!

I'm quite sure that you'd get some uprising there which it'd be quite close to a mogged issue.

Diana

or was that a "Mogadishu"?

**Disco44** · 12th December 2009, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by Numpty's Missus

Tis all good

.....and I had just arrived home from a busy shift at work during which I did attempt to look up some medical journal articles on the subject but just kept getting called away to do work and gave it up in the end

My nursing speak is pretty straightforward. I don't try to baffle with words most people don't understand. I speak plain simple English to my patients coz then they get the message...so maybe I did read it wrongly

so you have my apology back for doing so....sorry

Accepted.I remember when I came home from Night/Day shifts which had been particularly taxing I could be like a bear with a sore head .Thank God that's a thing of the past now and I'm a man of leisure...a grey nomad.
Best wishes,
John

**e3j** · 12th December 2009, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by V8Ian

The spider is not poisonous, however like any animal bite, bacteria can be introduced by the bite.

I think you will find that ALL spiders are venomous. Just the toxicity and amount of venom varies.

**dullbird** · 12th December 2009, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by e3j

I think you will find that ALL spiders are venomous. Just the toxicity and amount of venom varies.

and whether they even have the ability to penetrate the skin

MickS · 12th December 2009, 08:52 PM

There's a big difference between venomous and poisonous....venomous animals etc store their toxins internally, and deliver it by way of biting or stinging. Poisonous animals use the poison as a defence and secrete the toxins through their skins if bitten or touched or stood on. One uses toxins to make dinner, the other uses toxins so they aren't dinner.

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