Thread: D3 ENGINE FAILURE!!!!

Originally Posted by RFollia

I feel very sorry about your issue. At first I thought it was the TdV6, of which I 've heard about 7 failures in different engines in LR club of Spain, all them with number 6 piston melted, some with 20k km (lowest) and the highest at 135K.
And there are no pistons for that particular engine.

Yours is the Ford cologne so it's another story.
If I were you I would do the following
1st.- Ring ASAP to LR australia telling them your issue
They will ask you to send them a fax (no email, please) with all service records
2nd.- The same fax, letter and bills for different services, and copy of the service portfolio in your LR, send them by post to them, explaining in a very polite manner your issue and concerns, and do tell them that maybe it's not an isolated case. Forget rude words and telling them their product is rubbish. And mention ANY other LRs you have in your "fleet" if there are some more

3rd. Call your dealer to stop work now.
Maybe your car is out of warranty.. BUT... sometimes, (very seldom) they have something called "commercial attention" in which the cost of the repair is covered in part by the dealer and LR. So it's nice you have a friendly dealer nearby and that communication with LR Oz and your dealer is fluent

I went through smething similar but much much simpler as my rear diff is now in the process of being replaced. LR will honour the cost of the part and I will only be paying for labour. My warranty expired in dec.2009. So not all is lost

4th, if that is lost, search for a good rebuild quote
5th.- If that fails, search an Exploder engine and perform the swap.
6th.- if that fails, automotive comp in the UK had secured a batch of 4.4 engines at a huge discount price they will be converting into v8 4.0s for racing. Maybe they have a batch of 4.0 v6s as well.

Rover V8 Engine - V8 Performance Engines - Land Rover Engines - Jaguar engine Off road racing

7th.- GOOD LUCK! and tell us how it turns up

Regards from the other side of the Globe
Robert

Any idea of waht caused caused the TDV6 melt downs Rob? And any idea of out of how many vehicles did the 7 or so failures appled?

Cheers

Originally Posted by FOMOCO

I'm being told that the head gasket went causing water to pass into the cylinders, I'm told the tops of the pistons are "polished"; this then bent a valve on No 5 cylinder and put a hole in the piston, somehow the block has been damaged too
.......I'm wondering if I have any comeback with RAC...... could the problem have been diagnosed and caught before the valve bent? ......... There'll be a case of beer in it for anyone who can diagnose the root cause that leads to a successful prosecution

Did the valve drop into the cylinder , or didn't it ?
Has the 5th piston contacted the valve because the belt
timing has gone ?
....... and ........ nobody gets off their ass for just a case of beer ;
$5000 maybe ..........

[QUOTE=Neil P;1449140]Did the valve drop into the cylinder , or didn't it ?
Has the 5th piston contacted the valve because the belt
timing has gone ?
....... /QUOTE]

I am a bit confused as well - head gasket going does not cause a valve to drop. Likewise any new oil of almost any spec (within reason of cause) will not cause an engine to fail in the short term and will not cause head gasket failure nor the dropping of a valve - as you mentioned though a valve timing issue could cause a valve to hit a piston with all sorts of issues - but not blow a head gasket. Likewise a fatigue fracture could cause a dropped valve but would normally only show up at high milage.

There is conflicting info here so until investigated cannot be resolved - last service by ultratune will not be an issue - there is nothing they can do to cause this sort of damage. Most likely a valve timing issue with a manufacturing fault.

If the head gasket did let go then how does it cause a valve to hit the piston - if the cylinder is full of coolant would a valve be damaged as it tries to open or would it just relieve the pressure in the cylinder and the coolant comes out.

Seems to me there are some unrelated things going on here. Why do the engines fail in the Explorer? giving it the nickname "Exploder" - is what happened simply the same?

Garry

[quote=garrycol;1449169]

Originally Posted by Neil P

Did the valve drop into the cylinder , or didn't it ?
Has the 5th piston contacted the valve because the belt
timing has gone ?
....... /QUOTE]

I am a bit confused as well - head gasket going does not cause a valve to drop. Likewise any new oil of almost any spec (within reason of cause) will not cause an engine to fail in the short term and will not cause head gasket failure nor the dropping of a valve - as you mentioned though a valve timing issue could cause a valve to hit a piston with all sorts of issues - but not blow a head gasket. Likewise a fatigue fracture could cause a dropped valve but would normally only show up at high milage.

There is conflicting info here so until investigated cannot be resolved - last service by ultratune will not be an issue - there is nothing they can do to cause this sort of damage. Most likely a valve timing issue with a manufacturing fault.

If the head gasket did let go then how does it cause a valve to hit the piston - if the cylinder is full of coolant would a valve be damaged as it tries to open or would it just relieve the pressure in the cylinder and the coolant comes out.

Seems to me there are some unrelated things going on here. Why do the engines fail in the Explorer? giving it the nickname "Exploder" - is what happened simply the same?

Garry

Not necessarily unrelated - one possibility is the head coming off a valve, damages piston, head and block, so coolant gets into the oil from the cracked block or head. Valve failure of this sort, unless in a seriously modified engine or badly out of tune, i.e. retarded spark or very lean mixture, (is that possible on that engine?), just about has to be a manufacturing fault at that mileage. But whether you can prove it is another matter. Be very interesting to see the damage.

John

Whilst all this has been discussed , what about the timing chain
tensioners and cassette ; Is the 2005 onwards 4.0l v6 the same
nonmetallic parts as the 1997-2005 US engine ? Most US failures
were on plus 80000 mile units from early 2000's production.
Haven't seen any LR3 4.0 reports on US LandRover sites , have
any of you ?

Here’s an update from the weekend, I’ll upload what photos I have tonight. After arguing with RAC that I was due a 2nd free town then waiting over 3 hours for it I've taken the car across to the Dealer for a proper diagnosis to find the route cause, RAC’s story didn’t add up and their investigation wasn’t very comprehensive.

The piston on the nearside rear cylinder (LHD) has a valve shaped hole on the low side and the liner has a hairline crack, presumably the head of the valve is in the sump and yet to be retrieved.

The water galleries are very clean and almost white in colour, not sure if this is normal, but I suspect it could have been running hot; the timing chain’s front and back are both intact. The head is peppered with indents from the valve that’s been rattling around in the combustion chamber, until it made its way through the piston. Water has found its way into the oil and mixed, dark brown mayonnaise; the tops of the pistons on the nearside bank show signs of water damage and the head gasket is discoloured black around the joint between the cylinders. From what I can understand the head gasket has been passing but there was no sign of rise on the temp gauge or any oil or engine warning lights on the dash; it just gave way all of a sudden.

RAC missed it, but I spotted the valve stem and a few bits of what look like they could be rocker in the exhaust (there’s a small perforated plate in the downpipe that has captured it). When it let go we heard a “tinkle” sound from the bulkhead area, obviously the valve giving way and shooting off down the header, maybe a valve manufacturing defect then? I’m not sure if it was the inlet or exhaust valve, I think it was the smaller of the two.

So did the head gasket fail first, or was it a timing issue that damaged the valve? How can I tell if it was a timing issue, could a sensor have failed has the ECU failed?

Would the volume of water leaked from a head gasket failure cause a “hydraulic-ed” engine (i.e. when the bores fill with water from cracked block, head gasket or drowning the car) if the valve is open on the compression stroke would the incompressible water excerpt a force on the valve causing the stem to bend and eventually break, i.e. would it jam in the valve guide?

Castrol are coming to take a sample of oil for analysis (foc), service record shows they used 5W30, Valvoline Synpower MST from the description

But what happened is still inconclusive; the Land Rover Dealer has said he couldn’t believe what he saw when he opened the bonnet – he will say the same when I open my wallet! I’d offer $5k for an answer if I had it ) I’ve waited years to own a Landy and am gutted this has happened: I’m contemplating buying a box of matches and a Hyundai Getz!!!

I'll take a complete guess and say a new motor ( in ripoff Oz )
will be waaaaaay more expensive than a rebuild . You'll have to
repair it because it's scrap if not working . Then sell it .
PS The coolant pressure is only 20lb or so vs. three figures
in the piston at detonation . Coolant entering the cylinder
would be very little and slow too. You'd get cold engine misfiring
and stalling if it was head gasket initiated , and more like
CO2 entering the coolant rather than liquid in the cylinder.
I've had 3 engines do this in my time , and all alloy head
jobs that heat fail . Never happened to me on an all steel engine ,
but it can ofcourse

Here are some photos of the block and head...

Cylinder.jpg

Exhaust.jpg

Head.jpg