Thread: D4 Dies after first service....VERY unhappy camper!

mine is the same rimini red colour as Mowog's pic below and I just about had a heart attack when I thought it was mine exploded apart!
cheers, Rob

Originally Posted by multistrada

G'day Ladies And Gents,
well, I'm the "unhappy camper" – amazed at some of the comments and agree with John and the few other helpful, constructive, rational and calming voices – and I really appreciate some of the witty and clever banter (e.g. Discowhite - I am clearly not worthy and the D4 has judged me - Python-esque! And Celtoid – “He's a Prado owner....I don't believe a word he says.....” very wise! I obviously couldn’t afford a Cruiser at the time!).
My original words were written in an email (on my phone on the train) to some friends who communicate regularly in a dry, perhaps unusual, humorous banter and wasn't intended to be a precise technical debrief on the issue (I'm an aviation senior design engineer and could bore you to tears with pages of analysis! I’ve also raced bikes and cars, on and off road, since I was a teenager so, mechanically, I’m not a “dipstick”.). John posted it for me because I was travelling and hadn’t been online (travel home was delayed by some yet unexplained vehicular problem!). I’m not active with posts, but read a lot – perhaps because of the responses that some people post.

Some Info: as soon as I got onto the roadside assist, in business hours, they were brilliant. And the LR Squealer was also very responsive – loaner Freelander with no questions and offer to truck my car back to my home (200km away). As soon as I get the outcome of the repair/rectification, I’ll post it (so long as you promise not to shoot the messenger…… Or RockyLizard!)

So to answer a few questions (the ones that John hasn’t already):
· No petrol was put in the tank , it has done 22,000km, is 13 months old, and has been serviced at 1 and 6 months health checks, plus been back a few times to rectify “accessory issues”
· I don’t know the nature of the failure/Replacement Oil Level Sensor– they didn’t give me the fault code or the “defect to Board level”. it was picked up in the LR diagnostic and they didn’t have a replacement in stock.
· No Cautions or illuminations prior to the service, nor after (except the “Reduced Performance temporarily) – even when the dieseling/overrun occurred, no lights came on until the engine shut down – and then it was just the (expected) full set that comes up during the start-up – eg everything including hi beam and icing caution
· This isn’t a troll, this happened at 19:17 on 15/8 on high st rd on the downhill outbound after Warrigal Rd. And if it didn’t happen, why would LR be pulling my car down and loan me a Freelander for the week? (are some guys that desperately in denial?!)
· “I'd bet the service did something wrong causing run on....” – No ****, Sherlock?!?!
· this “Clown” must have a big nose and could smell Sulphur. That’s a fact and observation. It happened. Accept it and get over it. Maybe it came from the local rubbish tip or a nearby Crack Lab, but the smell wasn't there before but was immeiadtely after. It was intense inside the car, so it likely came from the event that had just occurred.

I am hesitant to even provide much of this info after seeing some of the comments – I’m expecting to get “he didn’t say how many seconds past 19:17!”. I am active on similar forums for KTM and Ducati – we use the approach of “only post what you would say to the person face to face, with a view to not being punched in the face” Again, some of the comments on this thread are helpful and humourous - I’m sure the Administrator/Master would say “ Boys and Girls. Play nice, don’t throw sand and be Roverlike” (a good term)

If this was first problem, I wouldn’t be so concerned nor made such cynical comments (and I’m not an arsonist) – the vehicle, and particularly the motor, is (was?) excellent (although a little quirky in the controls and displays, but nowhere near as “unusual” as my ducati!) but the service, in sales, accessories and service is atrocious. 3 month delivery turns to 6 (too popular!), accessories that were ordered with the car weren’t available at delivery, and one of them, ordered by part number from LR Oz brochures and website, wasn’t available in Oz, accessories falling off due to poor manufacture and fitment and then a 6 week wait for the replacement, features that were briefed during the sales pitch that aren’t actually fitted on this model, probably the worst Users’ Manual I have ever seen, etc.

Expect things like this to happen with all brands? We all know they do, but to what extent and how often? Well I’ve never had a car that had to be towed before, and rarely had any parts replaced other than consumables like tyres, windscreens, etc (and I push some of them pretty hard) and the list for the last 15 years or so reads something like Subaru, Nissan, Datsun, Ford, Holden, HSV, Toyota, Mazda, BMW, Daewoo (!), KTM, Ducati, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda, Gas Gas (multiples on some of these brands) – I like to experience different types and makes and tend not to be one eyed towards a particular brand loyalty – Yep I drove a new Prado and a key factor in the D4 decision was to try something different! Guess I shoulda paid more attention to the JD Power ratings.

Thanks for the constructive bits, keep up the mischievous banter and for those who want to rant – driving a Brit Car will give you plenty of reason to be bitter! Although, it is really an Indian brand now…….(Hey, those last two points’ll get the forum buzzin’ again!!)
Rob

….and the rocks just keep getting thrown….. J

Anyway…thanks for the extra info Rob. However, you do realise that what you described actually has nothing to do with the 3.0L engine or the D4, in relative terms? What you have inadvertently done, is supply a perfect example of one of the things that peeves myself and others and gets us accused as being defensive and precious about the D3/4/RRS. I know you didn’t do it maliciously but what you described is a chain of events that could have occurred with any brand, any car, and any engine and now there is a suggestion of negativity towards both the 3.0L engine and the D4. A suggestion that has easily been picked up by others. As has been stated ad-nauseaum (however you spell that?), it’s not about being defensive about the car, it’s about sifting for hard facts that will assist current and possible future owners.

I’ll reverse engineer to try to explain my mad-man rants…. J

If you purchased your D4 3.0L HSE, bought no accessories and had no issues, you’d still be referring to it as ‘excellent’…..right? No rocket science needed there.

So let’s look at the breakdown of issues.



SERVICE
I don’t think you’d be Robinson Crusoe complaining about LR service. It seems a bit of a mixed bag and it’s due to personalities generally….as in work ethic, belief in customer service, etc. However, in reality LR have no monopoly on that mixed bag either. In the past I’ve had absolutely crap service from Holden, Toyota, Peugeot and Hyundai….the last almost culminating in legal action. I don’t know what the fix is. Accepting it certainly isn’t. However, this has absolutely nothing to do with the engine or the D4.

ACCESSORIES
Mate I can’t comment on those, I couldn’t afford any… ;-) It’s extremely unacceptable that the service and product is such low grade but once again, nothing to do with the car or engine.

COMPONENT FAILURE
It’s crap…but it does happen. However, if the sensor was picked up and replaced during the service, with no ongoing issue, you’d still be raving about the car and still, rightfully moaning about the service and accessories.

So what actually happened?……Your car was excellent before the service (or post-service maintenance). So unless it’s a complete coincidence and you have just become the not-so-proud owner of the first 3.0L (reported in Oz…. haven’t read or heard about others) to kill itself, then it appears that somebody in LR screwed up! Brilliant deduction, I know…. ;-)

So when you separate the parts of your concern/experience, what does that actually have to do with either the 3.0L engine or the D4 specifically?…unless I’m missing something, I’d wager it’s got nothing to do with either at all. You could be reading this on a MB, Toyota or Porsche forum.

As I said, completely unintentional as you are understandably hot under the collar about the whole thing but do you see how much of a bun fight this can produce in these forums…other forums and then general reputation. As has been said before, being precious is the last of my concerns….I own a D4 and I really don’t give a flying F what anybody else thinks about it, but I’d like hard facts before I shell out $100K.

Anyway, I was going to chuck in some polar-opposite comments about Engineers and humour (I’m allowed to do that…I work for a large aerospace corporation that’s full of aircraft technical and engineering types (including myself)…..it’s a mixed bag and some would even pass as human)…but thought better of it…. J

Before you burn your D4…can I come down and strip some parts off it?

Mate, hope it all works out. It’s a freakin awesome machine and it’s a shame you have come to think less of it.

Technically, you’ve still never had a car that had to be towed……this is like some other **** crashing into you….somebody else made it happen. J
Cheers,

Kev.

OK everyone seems to have kissed and made up ,SO beers allround thanks

Connock

Kev it was limp home, excess smoke and blown turbos - all turbo issues it seems - that I was referring to. More cases than just on this forum.

Good to see this thread pick up.

Cheers

The update. It was very overfilled with oil during the service, not detected because the oil level sensor was unservicable (or disconnected? pending replacement next week). At some stage it decided to suck up the excess through a breather hose into the inlet and the rest is history - TDV6 says "I have compression and I have oil, I'm goin' for it"!
They are cleaning out the inlet tracts (and turbos? depending on where the breather enters, but I would expect that this was on the LP side upstream of the turbo).
Now "the discussion" with LR begins re the follow on effects on the rest of the system..........
the progression:
which I hope turns to

As I understand it, the refill requires a specific volume of oil to be added. If the old oil was extracted under vacuum rather than drained, perhaps not all the oil was extracted which then prompted the notion that the sensor was faulty when the specified volume was added because the sensor indicated it was over-filled. If this occurred then a 2nd error was made, being that the oil wasn't subsequently removed via the drain plug to prove that the sensor was faulty. On the other hand, perhaps there was an undetected gross inaccuracy with the measuring equipment.The 3.0 has the advantage of being able to close-off the 2nd turbo on a runaway which could reduce the extent of runaway and subsequent possibility of engine damage, especially if the oil is entering via the 2nd turbo.I am pleased that my dealer uses the drain plug to remove old oil.

Well on the bright side at least everyone now knows that the problem was caused by human error when the vehicle was serviced. There is no excuse for that and I hope you stick to your guns about having the vehicle repaired without future potential risk to you.

I put my D3 in for some minor warranty work a couple of months ago and while at the wokshop circumstances and the odd human oversight conspired together to cause a number of further mechanical issues with the engine. I politely stuck to my guns and last week I got it back with a brand new long engine fitted at no cost and no arguement and because of the service I got I will be going back to the workshop to get futhrer servicing done as the owner was very reasonable and helpful through out the process. Same goes for the car yard I brought the D3 from they provided a courtesy vehicle through out the whole process.

Good luck with it all.

cheers,
Terry

Originally Posted by multistrada

The update. It was very overfilled with oil during the service, not detected because the oil level sensor was unservicable (or disconnected? pending replacement next week). At some stage it decided to suck up the excess through a breather hose into the inlet and the rest is history - TDV6 says "I have compression and I have oil, I'm goin' for it"!
They are cleaning out the inlet tracts (and turbos? depending on where the breather enters, but I would expect that this was on the LP side upstream of the turbo).
Now "the discussion" with LR begins re the follow on effects on the rest of the system..........
the progression:
which I hope turns to

See Nothing wrong with the vehicle...

Just another example of a ****** in a workshop not taking pride or care in their work...

Dont feel too bad though - We had Toyota blow up our LV (Hilux) through a simple water pump change on a D4D... They didnt bleed the system and cooked the engine....

And our 2nd LV (My group has 2) just had its 3rd D4D fitted in 160,000km plus a new steering rack, new front arms and joints, new tailshaft centre bearing, new A/C unit, Bullbar re-welded (again), New radiator, new headlight (cracked mount) and new fuse panel (which fell apart).