Thread: Thinking of trading in the Discovery 3 for a new Defender

Don't get me wrong... I like live axles, big tyres and clearance and anything short is a compromise off road - ie the trade off for on road handling and ride. BUT that d3 v shorty was not a fair compare. If the d3 had better tyres and better driver it would get up there. I see the first up was a d1. For offloading in think it's hard to go past a well molded d1 or d2 or defender but if you own a d3/4 and love it you might find it a stretch to move into a less civilized vehicle.

Cheers

Originally Posted by discotwinturbo

I think the deefer is very capable offroad, but there are quite a few youtube videos that suggest the deefer struggles in spots (actually could not make it up) on the Powerlines in Perth, where the D4 and Range Rover sports make it look much easier. The deefer had better wheel travel, but the traction control was not in the same calibre and it just sat there spinning opposite wheels. That's only one example though. I will find the link and work out how to post them on here.

I have recently seen a mate in his deefer, easily climbing sand dunes where the rest of us put more hammer down. The skinner tyres stayed perfectly within the compacted tracks of vehicles with bigger tyres and required little effort.

Brett....

Brett, I think this is what you're after:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWC6iI_c-ek]23Jun2012 0016 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-660Y2FXelk]23Jun2012 0017 - YouTube[/ame]

There are examples everywhere D3/D4/RRS bettering the Defender AND visa versa ... tyres and driver ability is the biggest influencing factor. They are all Land Rovers and they are all good in my book.

There both very different vehicles that come from different era's but are still sold alongside ech other.

I have always had a soft spot for a Defender but in reality it's amazing that in 2013 you cn still buy them new given the stiff safety requirements being imposed for vehicle occupants now a days. Because unfortunately there is little to protect you or your family if you have a serious accident in one.

Add in the fact that many people can't psychically even fit in them to drive them and in many ways it speaks volumes for them as a vehicle that they still can be sold in commercially viable numbers.

There are plenty of horror story's about the reliability of them as well no matter what any Defender owner says, just go do some research in the Defender section to find out. Equally so they can't tow a decent weight and only have a reasonable max ball weight.

Are they more capable of road, often yes but not always especially when a D3/4 has been properly modified. Few Defenders that have been modified and are very capable off road would pass a RTA road side check for ADR compliance if stopped I would guess after checking out many when off road.

And would I sell my D3 HSE with logic7 stereo, electric memory leather seats, centre cool box, adaptive HID headlights, arm rests, quite and powerful engine and smooth auto and the amazingly adjustable air suspension and excellent Terrain Response systems and that can tow 3.5 ton easily without a WDH for a brand new very basic loud, rattly, uncomfortable cloth seated Defender with a stereo that sounded very average back in 1985 and that has surpringly very little storage space in the back or even room for decent sized passengers?

The answer would be no.

Having said that Defender owners have a right to be very passionate about their vehicles just as D3/4 owners do so each to their own. One thing that is interesting though, there are very few D3/4/RRS owners who post in the Defender section but there are plenty of Defender owners who read and post here.

I think that in its self speaks volumes.

cheers,
Terry

Terry - you were probably right about legalities, but now many would be complaint in Qld without certification since late last year. Given that the Deefer has skinny 31's and heaps of clearance to start with you can modify in the new Standard and have a hell of a mud puppy!

Cheers

Same goes for a D3/4, you can now fit legally 2" larger tyres due to the recently announced National standards which even runs in parallel to the current NSW standards, though in NSW's that means you need to get the vehicle checked by an engineer, but the same goes for either a Defender or a D3/4 in NSW.

The new standard gives a Defender just over an inch extra in tyres legally compared to 32" tyred D3/4 which ain't a lot, more importantly off road they have better ramp over angles even when a D3/4 has either Llams or GOA rods fitted, but that's not the whole story when off road so there are swings and round a bouts. In that department a well modified RRS would be much better than a D3/4 because of its shorter wheel base, but then again a short wheel base isn't everything.

Personally I'd rather be in my old D3 going through mud and water knowing that its not going to leak round the door seals in to the cabin then be in the average poorly assembled Defender that are known for leaking water and dust round theirs. ...


cheers,
Terry

Originally Posted by TerryO

There both very different vehicles that come from different era's but are still sold alongside ech other.

I have always had a soft spot for a Defender but in reality it's amazing that in 2013 you cn still buy them new given the stiff safety requirements being imposed for vehicle occupants now a days. Because unfortunately there is little to protect you or your family if you have a serious accident in one.

Add in the fact that many people can't psychically even fit in them to drive them and in many ways it speaks volumes for them as a vehicle that they still can be sold in commercially viable numbers.

There are plenty of horror story's about the reliability of them as well no matter what any Defender owner says, just go do some research in the Defender section to find out. Equally so they can't tow a decent weight and only a reasonable max ball weight.
[snip]

cheers,
Terry

No air bags ? Yep. Secondary safety items are lacking, but in the modern wagons at least you have primary safety items like ABS.
Being full time 4wd (like the D3/4) is a major safety plus IMO over the opposition commercial vehicles, which if we all remember is what it is.
A Deefer is a work truck first, designed to carry a payload and occupants to and from work over varying terrain, but if you have a big hit it may not be pretty, and with a family that may be of a concern.

Most can't fit in them ?

Really ?

Lets see, isuzurover is, how tall are you Ben ? 6'3" or so ? I'm 6'2" (and all legs), uninformed is at least as tall as me, Tombie is a little, er, more robustly built than most and Mike drove his ok.
Yep, shoulder room can be lacking (and I'm broad across the shoulders) but it's ok, you fit.
The actual seating position is actually very, very good, and the minimalist seats offer really good lumbar support.
Even the squab length is OK, even though they appear to offer bugger all support.
Everyone seems to bag the ergonomics, yet in fact the steering wheel/seat/pedals/gears relationship is pretty good, and the height of each promotes a relaxed driving position on long runs.
It actually runs rings around our GU Patrol. (yes, yes, I know the Patrol is a dated design too)

Can't tow a decent weight ?
Seriously ?
Have you checked out the towing capacities ?
Have you seen how a TDci is geared ?

The thing that would worry me towing with a modern Deefer is the rear diff, QA on the diffs are shocking, but there are plenty of stories of D3's lunching diffs too and I find it hard to trust a diff with only 600ml in the front and 1 litre of fluid in the rear diff.

Very, very easy to run the diff extremely hot with that small amount, regardless of the quality of your fluid.

I live with a Deefer on a daily basis, I spend a lot of time in it as it works for a living.
The noise can be a pain, but it's the only thing that I find tiring or annoying on a trip.
Maybe I just don't know any better ?

Originally Posted by TerryO

....

The new standard gives a Defender just over an inch extra in tyres legally compared to 32" tyred D3/4 which ain't a lot...

cheers,
Terry

Terry we are talking 33"of tyre in the Defender not 32" of rim in the D3....

Cheers

PS. Its the price one pays for having the brakes to comfortably tow 3 tonn...cant get small rims around the brakes to allow proper rubber that deforms and molds and has a nice LONG footprint! You just cant beat having real traction on the ground...

Originally Posted by rick130

...
The thing that would worry me towing with a modern Deefer is the rear diff, QA on the diffs are shocking, but there are plenty of stories of D3's lunching diffs too and I find it hard to trust a diff with only 600ml in the front and 1 litre of fluid in the rear diff.

Very, very easy to run the diff extremely hot with that small amount, regardless of the quality of your fluid.

...

I didnt realise how small the new ones were. The D2 runs the same 1.7 litres from dry in front and in the rear.

Cheers