Thread: Oil pump casing...

Originally Posted by garrycol

With my old Freelander, old drill bits of the right size could be used as the cam and crank locking tools.

With the TDV6 do you need the correct tool or can something else be used. If you correct tool is needed where can you get it locally and how much are they?

Cheers

Garry

garry, see my post above with the link to the image, they are quite a complicated shape.

jc

Well I picked up my vehicle this afternoon, all the work done - correct part numbers etc... all the old bits are in a box for me to inspect (my timing belt looked very good) I had quite a few other little things done at the same time - and I'd have to say I'm very happy with MLR's work (as usual) - I've never seen the engine bay that clean or the car... heh heh
The car is running like a swiss watch... and I have that "peace of mind" smile
Off for a three day "exploring trip" up around Mansfield next week... looking forward to it.

cheers

Originally Posted by justinc

Flywheel Locking Tools and Camshaft Timing Pins (TDV6), Mark's Garage for Land Rovers

this is the set i use, and yes about 30 minutes in the vice with emery strip to make it actually fit. it seems they make them almost size for size, and then zinc plate them . idiots.


jc

I emailed Mark at Mark's Garage about these - his response was interesting.

"Hi Garry,
Some times the pins can be a bit tight. Most of the time
in our workshop we just use bolts and mark the crank with tipex.

Regards

Mark"

So maybe not so important to use the right pins. However, I will get them if I do the belts myself.

Garry

You might be able to replace the timing belt like this (all other timing belts I've done have been more or less like this) but you can't only use 'tip-ex' if you're doing the oil pump.


The crank pulley has to come off, and by the way, it's not keyed to anything! It's a floating crank pulley, the only thing holding it still is the tension on the bolt! That can be a bit disconcerting when you think of how much load it is under - ie, the entire accessory drive and timing belt drive and HPFP.


So if you rattle the bolt undone without the engine locked up properly, the engine timing's going to go out, and I don't think it's going to be fun getting it back in again while not damaging anything.


I thoroughly recommend:
-removing the starter and locking the crank - a bit tricky but not as hard as you may think - ISTR it's a bit harder on Euro IV engines as the fuel cooler is in the way.
-locking the cams
-removing the bottom bolt with a breaker (mine was over a meter long) - throw the bolt away
-replace the oil pump/seal/new bolt - torque it up as per spec (very important) - 100nm + 90deg.
-install the new pulleys - 45nm on the large rollers and 24nm on the tensioner (but don't torque it down yet!) - use a new bolt on the tensioner. The new bolt has a pinched shank.
-install the belt - go from crank first -> tensioner -> passenger side cam -> roller -> driver side cam -> roller. Anyone who's done a T-belt on a V6/V8 knows that that's not quite as easy as it sounds. SO:-
-With the cam pins in place, you can undo the three bolts and release the cam sprockets to make it easier to install the belt - release the sprocket and rotate back (clockwise) enough to get the belt on (only a few mm), then rotate by hand as far as possible forward until the belt is tight (anti-clockwise), then nip the bolts up, then torque them down. Note there's no risk in doing this, the cam stays where it is with the pin and the sprockets move on slotted holes. This also becomes necessary due to the fact that since the crank pulley is floating, it may not always go back to exactly the same phase as it was before - ie for me it was half a tooth out and the cam pulleys HAD to be moved to get the new belt on to my satisfaction.
-Set the correct belt tension and torque the tensioner down to 24nm. Important for two reasons - (1) it's a small bolt and (2) you're installing the small bolt into the alloy of the oil pump, not the CGI block. So for that and the crank bolt, a good torque wrench is an absolute must on this job, no doing it up by feel like on some cars.
-Triple check torques.
-Rotate a few times by hand to check nothing is binding, etc. Officially you're meant to rotate two complete turns and then reinstall the locking pins/tools to make sure it's all good.

I spoke with a couple of a highly regarded and well known Melbourne LR service centres about replacing this Oil pump casing/ mounting bracket when doing the timing belt, and both said that they don't normally do it.

One of them said that his garage had never seen the cracked cam tensioner mount but was aware of a case at another service centre where it had cracked subsequent to a timing belt change because incorrect torques were used in the refit. He indicated that when this matter first came to their attention they rang around to the other service centres to see of the problem was being seen elsewhere and it was not.

He said the part in question should of course be inspected for any problems when replacing the timing belts, but replacement this part as a matter of course is not necessary. Perhaps others are hearing different information for their service centres. I'd be interested to know if so.

The impression that I got was that this fracture is a very rare occurance - but the probability can be increased if the timing belt replacement is not done strictly by the book.

Originally Posted by BSM

I spoke with a couple of a highly regarded and well known Melbourne LR service centres about replacing this Oil pump casing/ mounting bracket when doing the timing belt, and both said that they don't normally do it.

One of them said that his garage had never seen the cracked cam tensioner mount but was aware of a case at another service centre where it had cracked subsequent to a timing belt change because incorrect torques were used in the refit. He indicated that when this matter first came to their attention they rang around to the other service centres to see of the problem was being seen elsewhere and it was not.

He said the part in question should of course be inspected for any problems when replacing the timing belts, but replacement this part as a matter of course is not necessary. Perhaps others are hearing different information for their service centres. I'd be interested to know if so.

The impression that I got was that this fracture is a very rare occurance - but the probability can be increased if the timing belt replacement is not done strictly by the book.

For the sake of a few $$$ do you want to risk a $15k motor?

Originally Posted by BSM

Perhaps others are hearing different information for their service centres. I'd be interested to know if so.

Is my belt change is coming up I raised this with my local independent and he did not know of the issue and he said he had not had any issues. I said it had been happening and he was surprised - he was also surprised when I said that all new housing even under the old part number had the extra ribbing and that if there was no issue why would Landrover make the change in the part? I indicated he might want to look at this further as if one did fail after a belt change and the engine failed he would have to meet the cost of the new engine.

He didn't seem too concerned.

When I do get my belts changed I will be getting the housing changed to the new one - as Tombie said it is cheaper than a new engine.

Garry

Originally Posted by garrycol

Is my belt change is coming up I raised this with my local independent and he did not know of the issue and he said he had not had any issues. I said it had been happening and he was surprised - he was also surprised when I said that all new housing even under the old part number had the extra ribbing and that if there was no issue why would Landrover make the change in the part? I indicated he might want to look at this further as if one did fail after a belt change and the engine failed he would have to meet the cost of the new engine.

He didn't seem too concerned.

When I do get my belts changed I will be getting the housing changed to the new one - as Tombie said it is cheaper than a new engine.

Garry

They have broken here and they are starting to break on a regular bassis now in the UK , I think as this usually happens after a belt change is the key though some have broken before the belt change , but in any case it has taken 6/7 years before this has serviced so I am not surprised as it is not well known yet . I did mine when changed the belts so hopefully I have dodged a bullet , visualy there was nothing wrong with my oil pump that I could see . Also why is LR coming to the party in the UK and paying for the outcome of these breakages in some instances at around the 160k mark .