18" Compomotive Wheels

**Melbourne Park** · 26th September 2015, 08:46 AM

As far as gear boxes being off topic --- they are on topic IMO, because we change the gearing with the GOE wheels, and various tyres. Fuel economy, tyre life, transmission issues, are all right on topic IMO!! As are puncture issues ...

As far as the mud flap issues going ... I am not sure that the front flaps really do the job for the rear tyres ... because the longer they are, the more they are prone to reverse damage when they get tied up (tyred up) with the front wheels when reversing.

Perhaps we need a flap in front of the rear tyre ... maybe located onto a sill protector. If the sill protector is 250cm from the ground, then I guess the flap should be that far in front of the rear tyre, so that you could swing it up when not in use.

And made out of rubber web conveyor belt material (which is what off road trailers etc are seeking out now). Maybe have them swing up onto a hook for bitumen use, and then release them for the off road stuff. It would be easier to have a heavier and better material, by locating it away from the front wheels, where even location issues seem to depend on what LR designed.

I reckon that sill protectors or rails or whatever they are called, are popular for off road work ... ( I am interested in some and also they can make access to the vehicle easier). For a Disco, why not design in a bracket - say the GEO rock slider with extension bar) so that a bracket can attach a strong industrial conveyor type reinforced rubber flap that flattens rocks just before the rear wheels get to them?

**Melbourne Park** · 28th September 2015, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Graeme

...

LR announced at its release that the 4.4 TDV8 was deliberately detuned (lower specific output) for improved longevity compared with the 3.6 TDV8 and the 3.0 TDV6/SDV6. However its no longer favoured by LR due to it being heavier than the V6 - at least that's what LR is saying publicaly.

Please excuse me being off topic ... last off topic comment now:

I recall they cut the performance to limit Nox ... i.e. pollution. There are punitive taxes for NOx in the UK, and various parts of Europe I presume. V8s also cost a lot more to make ... but IMO, if the Ford F market had of wanted a 4.4 litre diesel (they have a 6.4 litre I think which is made at the same Mexican factory where your V8 is made) then the V8 would be pushed a lot more. Instead they are going the V6 route it seems ... One strange thing about the 4.4 V8 is the compression, which is higher than many newer diesels. The "fashion" is to drop the compression and get it back under boost. Higher revs seem to happen when auto makers do that.

There isn't much info on the V8 though ... that I've read at least. I do not even know the common rail pressure, which increased a lot with the 3 litres V6 diesels in the Land Rovers. It must be fun to drive.

Apologies from Doug,

who lacks control ...

**Melbourne Park** · 29th September 2015, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Ferret

GOE rim + Cooper Zeon LTZ 285/60-18

There is also a General Grabber tyre of that size:

LT285/60R18
122/119Q E
31.6 "
25.8kg
13.1 tread depth
1500kg weight

My 255/60/18 Grabbers have only 10.3 depth new, and are not LT, and they carry I think under 1100kg. But they are strengthened for more weight carrying and pressure. They only weigh 18.2kg though, which is 7.6kg lighter.

Not sure what you have to do to get such tyres to fit. I do wonder though, if one could shave the tyres (something done in motor racing), to slightly reduce the diameter. With such tread depth I think it would not be a bad thing to do ... but I am not sure how much that would cost.

Doug

**Marty110** · 8th October 2015, 07:23 PM

like a few of you waiting on Gordons rims I have a set of D697's sitting in the shed having read all the positive reviews on here. I just got back from up north and someone I know who repairs a lot of tyres up there showed me a 697 when he found out I had some waiting to go on. It is the second one he has had come in with a sidewall failure. Unfortunately I dont know the pressure, load or speed involved only that, as you can see in the photo, the sidewall looks as though it has been slashed. The tyres had lots of tread and there was no obvious sign of any sort of impact or rubbing. Has anyone else heard of this? By the way I had to replace 2 Zeons, one a rock fracture that could not be repaired and one with sidewall damage - was trying to get one more trip while waiting on the new rims......

**ADMIRAL** · 8th October 2015, 10:28 PM

Very hard to be objective when comparing tyres, and as you have already noted, without any of the associated data it becomes more and more a guessing game. For every reported instance of damage to one brand of tyre, there is a corresponding number for any of the others in use.
I would not read too much into it.

Tombie · 9th October 2015, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Marty110

like a few of you waiting on Gordons rims I have a set of D697's sitting in the shed having read all the positive reviews on here. I just got back from up north and someone I know who repairs a lot of tyres up there showed me a 697 when he found out I had some waiting to go on. It is the second one he has had come in with a sidewall failure. Unfortunately I dont know the pressure, load or speed involved only that, as you can see in the photo, the sidewall looks as though it has been slashed. The tyres had lots of tread and there was no obvious sign of any sort of impact or rubbing. Has anyone else heard of this? By the way I had to replace 2 Zeons, one a rock fracture that could not be repaired and one with sidewall damage - was trying to get one more trip while waiting on the new rims......

Thats a slice... you can see the cut point starting near the rim....

Something sharp has got that...

**TerryO** · 10th October 2015, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Melbourne Park

It was the father of the owner of Complete Camper, who make various camper trailers in NSW. I discussed one of their trailers at a show in Victoria.

He said that his 200 was re-jigged to 4.5 tonne. He needed it for some trailer with more than one van on it ... or something like that!!!! I guess he knows how to get it done??

Nonetheless ... the vehicle could not be 4.5 tonne could it, as the axle weight would preclude going of the GVM. As far as trailering, I would have thought the overall Gross Combination Mass (kg) would preclude a 4.5 tonne tow ... but on the Landcruiser site, there is a way around it with 200s. There is some type of specification that Toyota leave off, which allows an auto engineer to re-jiug the figures. That's what was said, anyhow ... I know they some have increased tow weights ... not sure how they have managed to get it done though.

This is off topic in this thread so if you don't mind how about cutting and pasting the relevant posts from the Toyota site you have mentioned in a new thread explaining how a LC200 can legally have its GCM increased to 4.5 ton if you don't mind Doug.

I for one would be interested to see exactly what they are doing.

Having previously spoken to a engineer who specialises in rerating vehicles he said increasing GVM is possible but changing the maximum towing capacity is not. If it's rated by the manufacturer at 3.5 ton then that is what it is.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

**Melbourne Park** · 26th October 2015, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by TerryO

This is off topic in this thread so if you don't mind how about cutting and pasting the relevant posts from the Toyota site you have mentioned in a new thread explaining how a LC200 can legally have its GCM increased to 4.5 ton if you don't mind Doug.

I for one would be interested to see exactly what they are doing.

Terry:
Perhaps check out the caravan sites - such as Bushtracker. You would have to ask Bushtracker for an access password. I have one, as I looked at buying their product.

Unfortunately Bushtracker are critical of the Disco for large vans ... and they bought one for testing, when the D3 came out. And later, they had a D4 too, I think with the 3 litre V6. But they insist that for an over 21 foot van, one should have weight distributing couplings, and hence besides 5 wheelers, they recommend the 200 series, for larger vans.

With the high GVM, I do not know which company did that work. At the time, I had a Prado 150 Kakadu, and when I bought my van, I thought the Prado was not good enough. I hate the 200 around town, so bought the Disco.

My understanding was that the bottleneck was mostly the manufacturers maximum weight for the rear axle ... anyhow, GVM upgrades are common, and ARB 4?4 Accessories | GVM Upgrades - ARB 4x4 Accessories ARB have a list which they supply, and I think other companies can do more. One that list, the highest change was for a leaf spring patrol, up to 3,900kg.

Doug

**Redback** · 26th October 2015, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Melbourne Park

Terry:
Perhaps check out the caravan sites - such as Bushtracker. You would have to ask Bushtracker for an access password. I have one, as I looked at buying their product.

Unfortunately Bushtracker are critical of the Disco for large vans ... and they bought one for testing, when the D3 came out. And later, they had a D4 too, I think with the 3 litre V6. But they insist that for an over 21 foot van, one should have weight distributing couplings, and hence besides 5 wheelers, they recommend the 200 series, for larger vans.

With the high GVM, I do not know which company did that work. At the time, I had a Prado 150 Kakadu, and when I bought my van, I thought the Prado was not good enough. I hate the 200 around town, so bought the Disco.

My understanding was that the bottleneck was mostly the manufacturers maximum weight for the rear axle ... anyhow, GVM upgrades are common, and ARB 4?4 Accessories | GVM Upgrades - ARB 4x4 Accessories ARB have a list which they supply, and I think other companies can do more. One that list, the highest change was for a leaf spring patrol, up to 3,900kg.

Doug

Regardless of a GVM upgrade, the 200 series cannot tow 3,500kg fully loaded, as you add weight to the car, towing weight is reduced, that is set by the manufacturer, I'm pretty sure the GCM is not increased when the GVM is increased.

Also that would mean the rims load rating would no longer be legal, I'm going on what they do here at work when a GVM increase is needed for our work trucks.

**Melbourne Park** · 26th October 2015, 04:09 PM

Bushtracker have vans that are 3500kg - for instance, I did a search on caravan sales: 21' Tare 2940, ATM 3500, GVM 3500

I thought that the main bottleneck was the rear axle weight capacity - I thought that could not be exceeded. But I am not an auto engineer, and I have not had to have things done.

But I'll quote what one of the director's said in June this year. Note too, that 200 drivers have real issues with ride when they change the vehicles. And such changes are not cheap. They also have to be very careful with the angle of the vehicle, as when weight goes on, the front can become light. Air springs often perform poorly on them, from owners reports in caravan threads.

In late November, I'll ask someone I know who is also going to be at the Australian Off Road Victorian get together. He is an automotive engineer, he worked for GMH until slightly early retired, and he has done up a new 200, I think his setup would have cost around $10k.

Here is what the director of Bushtracker said, I don't think they'd object to this quote, as it PR for their brand. Also, I did not use a password to access the site, so you could do a search and find this quote:

Just to be clear on a couple of your points, what you are asking varies State to State. Besides the Mad Scientist at Bushtracker, and a few other things, I am also a Queensland Transport HVRAS Officer, and I have modified more than a dozen trucks in the R&D for Bushtracker... Now the high count is because the custom vehicles were not only for Bushtracker, but also for carting horses even Interstate to State and National competitions with my Daughters....

In Queensland, they do not touch the original Compliance Plate. The add on to it with what is called a Modification Plate. In theory you need a "Mod Plate" for every modification you do to the vehicle that is not on the original Compliance Plate. On some trucks I have had up to three of those blue Mod Plates for a half dozen mods with multiples on each one.. Take a seat out, put one in, increase tow capacity on a hitch, increase GVM, even decrease GVM like on my current Dodge so anyone can drive it with a normal car Licence: all these type of things need a Mod Plate with the Qld Transport Certified Engineers letter to go with it.

Now this sounds harder than it is, some cost $200 for an Inspection and it can be a Private Engineer in the Transport Game. It means they are on the Qld Transport approved list of Private Engineers that can certify that the work was done correctly and Legally and their stamp of approval so to speak, that it is "Roadworthy".

Some People like ARB, have a niche blanket approval for a specific thing like a GVM increase with their suspension kit, OK? Anyway, they stamp out the Mod Plate and permanantly rivet it to the vehicle, and then you take it to Qld Transport so they can see the plate affixed, with the letter from the Engineer and then they alter your Registration at no charge, for the GVM as an example. You find the right Engineer, you can get amazing things done that others say they cannot do. How is that? They are just not Certified to do it, but a Custom Truck Builder, some of them can do anything within reason as long as it is done right, OK?

Anything further on this that I can help you with, please send email to Bushtracker. Kind regards, Steven Gibbs, Director

I don't know if the Maximum vehicle and trailer combination/Gross Train Weight (for the 200 it was 6,740kg) can be altered - but many claim it can be. I have never understood how a manufacturer's maximum axle load can be altered either. The 200 has an extra 95kg rear axle capacity compared to the Disco, from my spreadsheet, which I did when looking to buy either a 200 or a Disco. I would have liked tho know the weight distribution of the Disco before I bought it, as I have been unable to find that figure. There's no doubt the Prado and 200 are softly sprung for drive around retail sales, and many have claimed they are not suitable for van towing unless they are equipped with heavier springs. Typically either 200kg or 400kg ones.

Incidentally I had an experience with buying a VW van, and I lent it to someone who was in legal trouble, and could not work. So I bought a VW Caddie, and he drove it for 18 months doing some courier work. He put a 3rd seat in it (unbeknown to me), which was illegal. I had to get the seat out to sell it - but I also needed an automotive engineer to remove the seat, and confirm that the vehicle was not damaged by such removal. Fortunately it wasn't, but many such vans would have been - he said Toyota vans are very weak underneath, and that VW's are very strongly built ... I think too, that the States all have different regulations.

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