ForumSage
SubscriberPerhaps the Puma could not (it might...) - but towing in heavy sand is where massive torque and power is a very helpful thing. When its vehicles by themselves the difference in weights is a big thing. Its all relative. I am not having a go (god forbid) at the D4 what I am saying is that with just the vehicle the weight of the D4 works against it in soft sand versus the Puma (and that is just a fact). There are also tyres which is very important but again I wont go into that cause its touchy. Now put the same power/torque in the puma and watch it become better in sand than a D4 towing (because it is a ligther package and has great big tyres). In terms of weight being a big thing, think the old Zuk's and even further back the Model T Ford - despite skinny (yet tall..read shallow approach angle for the tyre...) it was exceptionally light and allowed the car to go through deep sand with a puny engine - now attach a 1.5 tonn camper and its not doing anywhere.
My D2 recently had a dose of 4.6 litres and in the softest powdery sand from 700rpm it just pulls out like a steam train from walking pace. Its crazy. Then again its got 31 inch tyres on 16's too and they are aired down to give a nice long footprint. So the ideal sand vehicle is gobs of torque and power combined with good tyres and low weight. The D4 is good in sand despite the weight and tyres, which proves what a great powerplant and gearing it has. Lets not write off peoples experience however with other models of the brand - ie the above post about the poster's son's Puma. He is also not the only one who has made such comments over the years. Now sure put a big load on the back of each vehicle and point them up a steep sand hill and the D4 3.0 TT should do better.
Cheers
Wizard
SupporterOriginally Posted by ozscott
Unfortunately the Puma doesn't have the same power and torque, which is exactly Gordon's point.
My comment was actually a little bit tongue in cheek and added for a bit of fun! My D4 with its larger tyres is fantastic in sand, as long as I lower tyre pressures. If I'm lazy and don't lower tyre pressures I may come to stop. If that happens and I drop pressures to around 18 it just drives straight out.
Bob
2010 D4 3.0TDV6 SE, ediff, LLAMS, 5 x GOE wheels, LT285/60R18 BFG K02's, GOE Compressor Guard, LR Tank, Mitch Hitch, ECB Bull Bar, Kaymar Rear Bar, Traxide, Safari Snorkel.
2019 Discovery 5 SD6 SE, 20 inch wheels, 275/55R20 Nitto Grappler G2 tyres
ForumSage
SubscriberNo worries Bob - yes of course you and Gordon are right in that the Puma does not have the same grunt as the 3.0 TT. I think we are on the same page.
Cheers
The MTRs I had on the D1 certainly dug big holes in the Simpson Desert's dunes, until I lowered them from 20 to 16psi. Other vehicles with ATs, also lowered, cruised over the same dunes. The chunkier the tread the more likely it is to dig holes in sand, I reckon.
A D4 would be around 500kg or so heavier than a Defender 110, so that much extra weight has to have an effect in sand, surely?
Wizard
SupporterJust for a bit of interest, we were playing on that same hill one day with me in my 6.5 Chev diesel powered GQ, my son in his gutless TDI 300 and my other son in a 4.2 turbo GU Patrol (nearly as gutless). The Chev with its massive torque just powers up the hill any way you like in third low. The other two got stuck half way on every run and we got them up using Maxtrax and a snatch from the GQ. My GQ has 33's but the D4 will usually run rings around it in sand and even gets further up very steep soft sand hills that will stop anything. It has 600Nm and the Chev is a bit over 400Nm. My D4 is heavy as you can see from the options list in my signature.
Bob
2010 D4 3.0TDV6 SE, ediff, LLAMS, 5 x GOE wheels, LT285/60R18 BFG K02's, GOE Compressor Guard, LR Tank, Mitch Hitch, ECB Bull Bar, Kaymar Rear Bar, Traxide, Safari Snorkel.
2019 Discovery 5 SD6 SE, 20 inch wheels, 275/55R20 Nitto Grappler G2 tyres
ForumSage
SubscriberThats interesting about the Chev - thats less torque than my 4.6 high compression motor. What is the power on that?
Cheers
Some quick back of the envelope calcs...
Last edited by Tombie; 12th November 2015 at 02:07 PM.
ForumSage
SubscriberNice work Tombie!
Cheers
ChatterBox
Tombie,
I think your power to weight ratios are a tad optimistic - by a few orders of magnitude!
I've not seen the Defender Autobiography, which engine is that?
The Def 90 should be around 50 Kw/tonne, the SDV6 is closer to 74 Kw/T
Cheers,
Gordon
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