Where the LR's & RR's are in Australia (Stats)

**Melbourne Park** · 30th October 2015, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by BMKal

So you know better than the published dimensions from Land Rover and Toyota, hey.

Dream on.

And I dunno where "it is said by Toyota" that the width of the wide body Camry is less than that of a VW Golf - when Toyota's published width for this vehicle is 1,825mm and VW's published width for the Golf is 1,799mm (and that's for the 7th generation Golf, which is 13mm wider than the previous model).

And yeah - there's a wide body Camry in the shed out the back yard as well.

The width of the Camry I described is described by Toyota as being 1795 (mm). Your body looks like its at earliest the new shape which first shipped in 2006. Mine is narrower than the Golf. As you say - your Golf dimension is 1799. And the earlier one is I guess 1786. That is basically the same width as my Camry. But the Camry is physically wider from my in street test.

I have measured them in my street, and my neighbour over the road, has a Golf (and a D4 too). The Camry is a lot wider.

Try it!!! I know it sounds bazaar ... maybe we should both run a measure over them! I have a digital measuring device - I just need to figure out how to put up something vertical against the sides for that to work. Then I could sneak across the road early one morning, and measure the Golf. As long as a Police car doesn't come along, I could do that ... but parking bumper to bumper, the Camry is a lot wider. I got my 23 year old out and asked him which was wider - he said the Camry Dad, and thought I was crazy to be concerned by such a thing. He thinks I'm a nut for being annoyed about it. Do you think your Camry has more internal width space that a Golf? And yes, I have measured the door thickness too - the Golf's are thinner. I test drove one not long ago (I bought my old mum a car with automatic braking, the Golf has that as an option).

And also, how come I could get a D4 up my driveway comfortably, but the 200 didn't fit??? I may even have a photograph - I took photos of the gap from the mirror to the electric posts.

I was annoyed too, because to get electric mirrors on a 200 series, you have to buy the VX model. While on the I think the cheapest Prado, and certainly most of them, the mirrors fold up electrically. The Prado is much narrower, has more compact mirrors too - yet the 200 ones which are big, don't fold up unless you buy the 2nd most expensive model. Incidentally, the LR mirrors fold up - but hardly. IMO they are a locking aid - they show you the car is locked, because they have folded up. But the 200s are even worse - they fold up, but they still stick out a lot. The Lexus NX mirrors fold down quite flat, and the Prado mirrors fold pretty flat for a big mirror too. Although the mirrors on the Disco are much nicer to use. I am not sure why ... they have a great view IMO.

However, I did push the fence post outwards - the gap about 2" wider now. It cost me a couple of K for that. I re-hung the arms for the gates too, as they were at mirror height, and took up some width. I changed the fittings on the electric arms too, so I could remove the fittings entirely, allowing maximum space to avoid the van. But after the first time, I have left the arms on the gates on.

With my van, which is about 7.4 meters long, I reverse park it from the street up to the back of my place, in one hit, except for a stop and walk around half way, to check that I haven't missed something. So I can reverse park a van pretty well. Then again, I can reverse park a 43' Bennetton yacht which wasn't mine, in a 40 knot cross wind, into a tight marina at Constitution Dock in Hobart at the end of the Sydney Hobart. So I can get my mind into what reverse parking is about. With doing that, you have to go pretty fast in order to keep the keel having water flowing over it, and the rudder, so you have sideways grip, or the yacht will suddenly be blown sideways. With the van its much easier, I use the mirrors for reversing up my driveway - not any technology although the van has a camera, which is great to check for the dog. I do get out though and check. Then get in and continue on.

I do use the best technology of all for reverse parking though - low range and an automatic.

**BMKal** · 30th October 2015, 01:38 PM

And your point is ?????

Regardless of whether you look at a 2005 or 2006 Camry - they are both wider than a VW Golf. You are the only one making this incorrect claim ("Mine is narrower than the Golf"), or ("it's width is said by Toyota to be less than a Golf. ") from a previous post.

I don't know where you get your information, as the stats published by Toyota and VW clearly show that neither model Camry is narrower than the Golf. Perhaps you listened to and believed a junior car salesman.

The numbers below are taken directly from the spec sheets on the Land Rover, Toyota and VW sites. Toyota only quote one "width" specification for their vehicles, which I have assumed is either exclusive of mirrors, or with mirrors folded in. Land Rover and VW quote dimensions with and without mirrors in operating position. I have used the 2015 Golf Mk 7 (earlier models are narrower again). The Amarok dimensions are thrown in there purely for my own interest, as I was visually comparing the size of my young bloke's new one to his D2 and my D4 the other day.

In addition to showing that the Camry (both models / shapes) is wider than the VW Golf, the data also clearly demonstrates that a D4 is wider than an LC 200.

Now if you have an electronic measuring device that tells you otherwise, you go for it. I once had an engineer who believed that water flowed uphill. He designed a couple of sumps half way down two parallel inclined re-claim tunnels under a stockpile, and could not understand why the water bypassed his sumps and collected in (flooded) the bottom of the tunnels. I sacked the engineer, filled in his bloody sumps with concrete, and dug new sumps at the bottom of the tunnels.

Oh ........................ and I can reverse a kayak up a creek.

**Melbourne Park** · 1st November 2015, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by BMKal

And your point is ?????

Regardless of whether you look at a 2005 or 2006 Camry - they are both wider than a VW Golf. You are the only one making this incorrect claim ("Mine is narrower than the Golf"), or ("it's width is said by Toyota to be less than a Golf. ") from a previous post.

I don't know where you get your information, as the stats published by Toyota and VW clearly show that neither model Camry is narrower than the Golf. Perhaps you listened to and believed a junior car salesman.

The numbers below are taken directly from the spec sheets on the Land Rover, Toyota and VW sites. Toyota only quote one "width" specification for their vehicles, which I have assumed is either exclusive of mirrors, or with mirrors folded in. Land Rover and VW quote dimensions with and without mirrors in operating position. I have used the 2015 Golf Mk 7 (earlier models are narrower again). The Amarok dimensions are thrown in there purely for my own interest, as I was visually comparing the size of my young bloke's new one to his D2 and my D4 the other day.

In addition to showing that the Camry (both models / shapes) is wider than the VW Golf, the data also clearly demonstrates that a D4 is wider than an LC 200.

Oh ........................ and I can reverse a kayak up a creek.

Thanks for all the work, that is great.

Pretty clearly -IMO- your presumptions re width without the mirrors width includes the bulk of the folded mirrors, and the Camry width being wider than the Golf, are - with great respect - incorrect.

Firstly re the mirrors: Toyota list the vehicle maximum width, completely excluding the mirrors. As do VW, when they mention the body width. When VW mentions the mirrors, it is when they are folded outwards. Recall too, that many cars have electric folding mirrors, and some non electric mirrors do not fold in. I think the D4 standard mirrors do not fold in??? The mirrors on the Camry Grande 2006 which I own, its mirrors casings are fixed. They don't fold in at all either. So body width completely removes all of the mirror. It is just a body width measurement.

This is likely the confusing thing. An understandable mistake actually. And also, IMO, we always presume that figures from companies must be perfectly correct, don't we!! Not IMO though ... for instance, power figures can be taken from various parts of the drivetrain. Fuel economy figures may not indicate the real fuel economy of a vehicle either - IMO at least.

So, because you went to such a great effort, I have tried to assist too, and I also measured my Camry. The figures are below.

Just on the measurements though.

Some links would have been useful; the Australian VW site did not list the two width dimensions of the 2005 or the current MkVII golf.

Carsales.com.au does list specs for Australian vehicles, but perhaps those can be wrong.

I found some dimensions here for a MkV Golf in the UK:
How wide is the mk5 golf, inc mirrors - Mk5 General Area - MK5 Golf GTI
width including door mirrors 2010mm
width excluding door mirrors1759mm

And this UK Site has the MkVII (same one you are quoting):
https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/VW-Golf-Dimensions-334

Width (excluding door mirrors) 1,799mm
Width (including door mirrors) 2,027mm -
Those are the same as the Australian ones for width excluding mirrors. That means, the mirrors are totally ignored.

The Australian VW site seems to not mention the width including the mirrors, although they are easy to get overseas. Toyota do not mention them though. Some people have tight garages - Toyota should mention that width, including mirrors, IMO.

VW Australia does list the width without mirrors though: 1799 (completely excluding the mirrors).
[ame]http://www.volkswagen.com.au/content/medialib/vwd4/au/common/specifications/my16/j6919-golf-my16-specsweb-pdf/_jcr_content/renditions/rendition_1.file/j6919-golf-my16-specs_web-01-10-15.pdf[/ame]

Now, from my vehicle's manual, the Camry dimensions are:
The Dimensions for the 2005 Camry (mine is a 2006 but that was the year that Toyota brought in a new model) are:

Wheelbase: 2720
Front Tread: 1545
Rear Tread: 1520
Length: 4805 or 4830
Width: 1795
Height: 1495

Now - lets repeat here: 1799 is larger than 1795. That's what I have been saying. The Camry is listed as narrower than the Golf. Yes - I was not lying about that ..

Now, I have just gone out and measured the Camry. Its body width is not 1795. My measurements show that it is more like 1870.

Yep ... their figure from my measurements of my car, indicate that Toyota's published figures seem wrong.

From mirror to mirror, the vehicle width is 2006. The mirrors are quite small on that model Camry.

This confirms what I thought. That Toyota body width figures are not correct.

And - just for a second - just consider I may be right about this. Just try to look at it from an owners view for a second.

However, my figures have some estimates in them, but they could not be far out.

Proper tools need to be used to correctly measure the car. I'd love to get the chap over the road to measure the Camry's width, although he's a motor and tranny guy, not body guy, but he's spent his time at GMH after Uni, and he's a victim of them stopping manufacturing. He's an ex GMH engineer, and would know how to accurately measure my car.

I need to hurry, as I am going to sell it.

Now, as far as the 200 series goes - I wanted to buy one. But I could not get it into my backyard. Well ... with its mirrors folded, there was 1.5" gap between my electric gates. I could get the Land Rover up, no worries.

Unfortunately I then widened my gates a little bit, less than 2" though. There's quite a gap though with the Disco - I don't have to think reversing it back, and the mirrors are fully extended. I had thought I would need to buy an SE because they have the folding mirrors, but the mirrors folded don't save much space.

I have a neighbour who has an off road trailer, and had a Prado like mine, and then bought a VX Toyota. I might knock on his door (I have never spoken to him for the 16 years here's been up the road), but it might be a chance to compare.

IMO though, the 200 is roomier inside, and it feels wider to me. I think too, that the Disco has wheel flares, that make the car wider, but they do not add to interior room. While the 200 has not go wheel arch flares, and IMO there might be more interior width due to the lack of "false" width from the wheel arches of the Disco.

I think its extraordinary that my measurements really do show the Camry figures are wrong, and really, I am doubting what I just did ... I do need to get that engineer (now retired) and get him to measure some cars!!!

is it possible that Toyota - who I think widened the old camry and use a different floorpan to the USA wider Camry - and have published wrong figures... its tough to believe, but ... I did just measure the car!!! It had a flat battery too - I need to go and buy a new one.

I guess I come across as crazy, but I am not bull dusting at all ...

**Canaussie** · 1st November 2015, 11:09 AM

Here in Emerald, central Qld, there are about 8 D4's and 4 D3's not bad for a town of 16k everything else is a Toyota

Thread: Where the LR's & RR's are in Australia (Stats)

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