Thread: End of D4?

Originally Posted by dirvine

My comment was that there are not many jap genuine 4wds with a low range box anymore, not that a LR could not compete with them

Sorry, i must have missed the low range bit.
If the gearing is right, you don't need low range, vw have proved this.
Punch the gear ratios into a gear ratio aspect calculator, you will be surprised.

Originally Posted by Vern

Sorry, i must have missed the low range bit.
If the gearing is right, you don't need low range, vw have proved this.
Punch the gear ratios into a gear ratio aspect calculator, you will be surprised.

I note that. But as much as people dont like Mr 4 x 4, he found out that towing a CT across the Simpson the VW vehicle without LR had issues and had to be snatch strapped across a few sand dunes and steep climbs. Also in some cases whilst the 1st gear is very low in these cars, its the 2nd and 3rd gears that get them into trouble. admittedly there is some cross over of gears between a high and low range transfer case with a D4 8 speed gear box, its just that you are always in the power range of the motor. Thats where a low range box is far superior. One low gear is not enough in most cases.

Originally Posted by Vern

Sorry, i must have missed the low range bit.
If the gearing is right, you don't need low range, vw have proved this.

It depends on what you want the vehicle to do. If its sand, you can manage without. If its steep, rutted hill climbs and rock crawling, then low range is essential. I have seen the new Range Rover Sport without low range struggle on rutted hill climbs. It ended with an overheated transmission. Refer post 19 at the following link.

TDV6 v SDV6 Off road

Without low range, you need speed to get through the obstacle, and that increases the risk of damage.

This talk of not needing low range is just spin from the dealer. Whilst I admire the advent of technology to make cars more effective/efficient, when it comes to off-roading, there are 3 requirements: articulation, low range and clearance. Traction control has compensated for lack of articulation, but technology has not yet replaced low range and clearance.

Mario

Originally Posted by mfpoli

It depends on what you want the vehicle to do. If its sand, you can manage without. If its steep, rutted hill climbs and rock crawling, then low range is essential. I have seen the new Range Rover Sport without low range struggle on rutted hill climbs. It ended with an overheated transmission. Refer post 19 at the following link.

TDV6 v SDV6 Off road

Without low range, you need speed to get through the obstacle, and that increases the risk of damage.

This talk of not needing low range is just spin from the dealer. Whilst I admire the advent of technology to make cars more effective/efficient, when it comes to off-roading, there are 3 requirements: articulation, low range and clearance. Traction control has compensated for lack of articulation, but technology has not yet replaced low range and clearance.

Mario

Well said,exactly,but in sand Low Range is very helpful on occasions.

Anyone that thinks VW, or whoever, has replaced Low range,as we know it, with an 8 speed auto box is dreaming.

Originally Posted by Vern

Why do you think it doesn't compete with the JAP cars? I have heard it is from someone who just spent 5 weeks testing them out bush! He was seriously impressed

So what Jap vehicle is in the same class as a D5?

Like asking what Jap vehicle is in same class as a RRS or RR?

None that i can think of.

LC200 and late model Patrol would be same class as D4,but D5 is in another class completely.

D5 is actually in the same class as RRS,Audi Q7,BMW X5,Volvo whatever,which is the market it was built to compete in,as said by LR representatives themselves.

Toyota are just sitting back laughing,as they always do.They do the bare minimum,but top the sales charts.

And that isn't just luck.

Originally Posted by scarry

Toyota are just sitting back laughing,as they always do.They do the bare minimum,but top the sales charts.

And that isn't just luck.

Not wrong. They can charge $75 K, for a bare bones 78 series, and not even bother to widen the rear axle to match what they did at the front to fit the V8, and you can't find one to buy.

I'm still of the opinion that the Discovery has been moved upmarket, and the D4 void will be filled by the new Defender. There is no way LR are going to make the Defender a jack of all trades like it used to be, so where else will it go but in the direction of the market that former Disco owners inhabit? There is still a big market for tourers, which the D5 won't satisfy, if the comments I've read are to be believed.

Originally Posted by johntins

Not wrong. They can charge $75 K, for a bare bones 78 series, and not even bother to widen the rear axle to match what they did at the front to fit the V8, and you can't find one to buy.

And then charge $2500 on top for AC....

The resale of that range is also ridiculous.

The guy next door just bought a dual cab,with bar and tray,and a couple of other little accessories,$80K drive away...


"I'm still of the opinion that the Discovery has been moved upmarket, and the D4 void will be filled by the new Defender. There is no way LR are going to make the Defender a jack of all trades like it used to be, so where else will it go but in the direction of the market that former Disco owners inhabit? There is still a big market for tourers, which the D5 won't satisfy, if the comments I've read are to be believed."

Have a good look at one in the flesh, and you will see what we mean.