Thread: Which is better Off Road a D3/4 or a late model Defender? ... Puma 110

Originally Posted by Celtoid

It truely is an enigma Terry. The company that's spent more on off-road R&D and continues to do so, than any other Company .... Yet they inhibit the cars potential.

I understand the vast majority of sales are for folks that will never use the cars potential, so why continue to improve their theoretical performance?

Mystery.

Would be interesting to know what drives the decision makers.

Profits is what drives decision makers and the only way to make profit and stay sustainable on low volume products is to sell at a premium. To sell at a premium you need to stand out from the crowd.

Awards by jorno's raving on about how good the new model is with all the new technological improvements well beyond the opposition easily translates into bragging rights for new owners and in part is what helps sell new niche expensive vehicles.

LR design Disco's to do amazing things off road but that doesn't mean LR actually want everyone to use those off road abilities to their maximum, if they do in the first three years then chances are things will get broken and warranty claims will be made which in turn affects the bottom line.

Fitting 19" wheels as far as I can see really is a self limiting factor, if you could just retrofit 18's with lots of sidewall because of a larger selection of tyres in comparison to the 19's then many would be tempted to push further and take greater risks.

That is how I see it working, I might be totally wrong but would LR ever admit it if I was correct?

Originally Posted by rick130

: Rolling :

[ame]https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ[/ame]

Originally Posted by rick130

The front CWP and entire front end is the same as your old D1.
Shock load anything and there is a point at which it will fail sooner rather than later.
Personally I'm surprised it wasn't the weak as **** 32 spline outer axle ends or a CV.

But we've already been down this road, a lot of us aren't that impressed with some of Land Rover's engineering and material choices in certain areas but like anything man made, it's a compromise.

Haha i never experienced that - it had lockers front and rear when i bought it - the previous owner had blown up the front diff!

I am worried though when the traction control can create enough force to blow up the diff... that story doesn't give me a lot of confidence in a defenders ability - they break themselves!

Cheers

Dan

Originally Posted by manic

Video Link: https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ

Bwa ha ha.

Originally Posted by Disco-tastic

I am worried though when the traction control can create enough force to blow up the diff... that story doesn't give me a lot of confidence in a defenders ability - they break themselves!

as was said, it's the shock load. Going from rapidly spinning wheel to sudden stop, there does not appear to be anything progressive about the application of the brakes to the spinning wheel, plus then trying to transfer the drive through the diff to the grounded wheel. But then maybe I was just unlucky!!

Originally Posted by strangy

Maybe i missed this somewhere back so if its been mentioned just ignore me. One of the best things to happen to 4WD vehicles of any description is a modern auto. This in istelf would contribute largely to the video Landy Andy posted and in an overall capability for the average punter. Something the Defender/Puma lacks and something many have lamented and retrofitted.

I think an auto is a necessary feature of the next defender if it's to sell 70,000 + units per year.

Originally Posted by TerryO

Profits is what drives decision makers and the only way to make profit and stay sustainable on low volume products is to sell at a premium. To sell at a premium you need to stand out from the crowd.

Awards by jorno's raving on about how good the new model is with all the new technological improvements well beyond the opposition easily translates into bragging rights for new owners and in part is what helps sell new niche expensive vehicles.

LR design Disco's to do amazing things off road but that doesn't mean LR actually want everyone to use those off road abilities to their maximum, if they do in the first three years then chances are things will get broken and warranty claims will be made which in turn affects the bottom line.

Fitting 19" wheels as far as I can see really is a self limiting factor, if you could just retrofit 18's with lots of sidewall because of a larger selection of tyres in comparison to the 19's then many would be tempted to push further and take greater risks.

That is how I see it working, I might be totally wrong but would LR ever admit it if I was correct?

I thik you'll find the bigger brakes are about being able to stop on sealed roads and in comparisons with other high performance vehicles despite the Disco being a heavy vehicle, much heavier than the Defender. The Defender is much lighter and slower than a D4, so doesn't need such big brakes. 19 inch wheels and big brakes are now common on big heavy vehicles.

As for TC, I can't comment on the version in the D4, but I'm impressed with the TC in my 2009 Puma. It means you would have to seriously question the need for a rear diff lock, particularly if it turned off the front TC as happens in the new Hilux/Fortuner.


Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

As for TC, I can't comment on the version in the D4, but I'm impressed with the TC in my 2009 Puma. It means you would have to seriously question the need for a rear diff lock, particularly if it turned off the front TC as happens in the new Hilux/Fortuner.

no it doesnt. I had my rear locker in when the incident occured that broke my diff. Having the rear diff lock with TC and the 6 speeds extra low first gear means that you could creep slowly up steep loose slopes without wheel spin and feeling very secure.