Thread: Which is better Off Road a D3/4 or a late model Defender? ... Puma 110

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Originally Posted by LandyAndy

Hey Terry.
This thread is starting to get a bit flat,time for you to pick a fight with the D2 owners
Andrew

Just don't ask Steve because he might repeat things you dont want to hear about well modified D2's (wasnt me!!!).

Cheers

Originally Posted by rick130

A combination of better gearing with the low gear in the six speed 'box and a VNT turbo makes the difference there.

Interestingly those that drive both the Td5 and Tdi in difficult off road say the Tdi will lug better at very low revs.

Cheers Rick. Yes the old Tdi has lugged well over the years, but puma certainly has the edge, although I'm not yet convinced in terms of engine braking downhill in low. Some further comparisons required me thinks.

Only driven a Td5 once so can't compare.

Originally Posted by 1nando

I have to admit you are correct. Its a new found respect. Have no issues admitting that, give credit where it is due

Good on you mate, well said.


Cheers,


Kev.

Originally Posted by ozscott

Just don't ask Steve because he might repeat things you dont want to hear about well modified D2's (wasnt me!!!).

Cheers

Nope, we only listen and quote Steve when it comes to him comparing his D3 and to a lesser extent his D2 to a Defender. When it comes to that he has total credibility.

... any other comparison with his D2 which might undermine our beloved D3's and 4's would be totally ignored as the rantings of a crazy man and hold zero credibility. ...

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Originally Posted by TerryO

Wrong! Just about all of the pictures of rolled Defenders shows it happening on public roads, these tough vehicles apart from having, not so strong chassis, are basically unstable. They have no stability control or decent braking systems, so when the drivers get in a sticky situation they can more easily lose control and roll their vehicles or end up driving head on into other vehicles or immovable objects. I guess that is when the built in crumple zones and airbags protect the Defender occupants from serious injury or worse.

Bugger! That's right they don't have airbags or built in crumple zones or stability control or good brakes, or reinforced roofs that don't just fold flat if rolled.

But that's ok, because the original comparison does not mention vehicle safety standards or poo carrying capability or strength and reliability of drive trains including diff's, gearboxes, clutches, drive shafts, cv's and or chassis strength and durability, it only attempted to compare in a sensible balanced discussion the off road prowess if both vehicles have similar sized and spec tyres.

So how are we going with the original comparison?

I'll bite,Terry your totally wrong.The defender is very stable,something I proved with my own vehicle when I did a defensive driving course,my TDCi out braked,out turned and basically out did all the other 4wds.If you look at vehicles like the Prado,Hilux,Triton as examples they cannot do the swerve around the witches hats test because they'll fall over,my TDCi did it easy,it also stopped a car length shorter than the next best vehicle,3 lengths shorter than a troopy and the defender does has crumple zones,look at the chassis,the ends are weaker than the middle cab section,that is called a fold point,an engineered energy absorption area for front or rear impacts,also don't confuse a crumpled body as being weak,the defender doesn't crumple any worse than most other vehicles because they are designed to,that crumpling uses energy as well as momentum,momentum is a very important energy to disperse in the case of a roll over. Pat

And I'll add I drove my L322,a mates 200 series,another mates Rubicon,a 200Tdi D1 and my Tdi and TDCi defender through a very tough motor cross track built into a waddi,the L322 cruised through,the TDCi struggled through riding the T/C,the Tdi stopped when it lifted it's wheels,the 200 did a beached whale impersonation and the Rubicon just had me laughing at how bad it was.The winner,the worn out '92 D1,that thing just walked it like is was a sunday drive,no T/C,no lockers no nothing,like a sunday drive it was. Pat

Originally Posted by MrLandy

although I'm not yet convinced in terms of engine braking downhill in low. Some further comparisons required me thinks.

as said the extra low first gear in the 6 speed Puma box makes all the difference off road and towing too compared to the Tdi and TD5 (and most other 4WD's). My Puma 110 is the first 4WD in 40years that I've owned that I have not had to at least 'feather' the brakes on insane downhill slopes - just sit in with foot off the brake and no run away at all. this was in the High Country, cant remember the track name. So all you have to do is sit there and pick your line down hill