Thread: Which is better Off Road a D3/4 or a late model Defender? ... Puma 110

A lot of us recreational 4WDers get a vehicle to live the dream, for example

nugget's Defender 130 build post 363

To me this is the ultimate off road trip, but 99.9 % of us will never do anything like it.
Up the Defenders alley , definitely
A D4 ( never driven one declaration) but given tyre profiles and GVM, it probably could, but would you? And staying inside GVM legal limits is a reasonable expectation.

Saying that, and assuming the luxury tax finally goes say in 2019, a full size Rangie, no disrespect D4, will do me fine, for the big lap.

Originally Posted by AndyG

Toombie, is that a closed trip or open to ring ins ?

Open, will be departing post Melrose event 2017...

Originally Posted by AndyG

A lot of us recreational 4WDers get a vehicle to live the dream, for example

nugget's Defender 130 build post 363

To me this is the ultimate off road trip, but 99.9 % of us will never do anything like it.
Up the Defenders alley , definitely
A D4 ( never driven one declaration) but given tyre profiles and GVM, it probably could, but would you?

I've been out that way a few times over the years. Stunning country. A combination of vehicle preparation, local knowledge and respecting the intercultural bush telegraph are key.

Been in my 98 Defender, a Tojo Troopy, a Tojo 60 series and a Patrol. Defender easily the best at negotiating corrugated and sandy tracks as well as that trackless country. Clearance, robust chassis, four coils and fuel economy too. Low centre of gravity also makes a big difference IMO. Troopy tough but way too top heavy and rear axle heavy, especially with leaf springs. (I know of one mid 2000's Troopy that blew both diffs and gearbox on corrugated roads out there). 60 series sits well on the road and very solid too, but low hanging leaf springs front and back are a problem in desert sand. Patrol had woeful over bonnet visibility essential for picking the right path between tyre killing spikes and washouts and an uninspiring 4WD system. Never felt confident of not getting bogged in patrol. Also both Tojos and Patrol very thirsty on fuel out there in the sand and working hard in the heat. Don't under estimate the heat! 50 degrees is common.

A D4 out there? Hmm low profile tyres would be shredded, air suspension very susceptible to damage, I'd feel like I was driving a city car in the desert. No doubt you can prep a D4 for a trip like that, but a Defender is far more suited out of the box IMO. Ideally with any vehicle an uprated radiator and new water pump, hoses, as well as water carrying capacity for human consumption would be highest on my list, as well as heavy duty AT / LT tyres and at least two spares.

Originally Posted by MrLandy

I've been out that way a few times over the years. Stunning country. A combination of vehicle preparation, local knowledge and respecting the intercultural bush telegraph are key.

Been in my 98 Defender, a Tojo Troopy, a Tojo 60 series and a Patrol. Defender easily the best at negotiating corrugated and sandy tracks as well as that trackless country. Clearance, robust chassis, four coils and fuel economy too. Low centre of gravity also makes a big difference IMO. Troopy tough but way too top heavy and rear axle heavy, especially with leaf springs. (I know of one mid 2000's Troopy that blew both diffs and gearbox on corrugated roads out there). 60 series sits well on the road and very solid too, but low hanging leaf springs front and back are a problem in desert sand. Patrol had woeful over bonnet visibility essential for picking the right path between tyre killing spikes and washouts and an uninspiring 4WD system. Never felt confident of not getting bogged in patrol. Also both Tojos and Patrol very thirsty on fuel out there in the sand and working hard in the heat. Don't under estimate the heat! 50 degrees is common.

A D4 out there? Hmm low profile tyres would be shredded, air suspension very susceptible to damage, I'd feel like I was driving a city car in the desert. No doubt you can prep a D4 for a trip like that, but a Defender is far more suited out of the box IMO. Ideally with any vehicle an uprated radiator and new water pump, hoses, as well as water carrying capacity for human consumption would be highest on my list, as well as heavy duty AT / LT tyres and at least two spares.

I went out to the geographical centre of the Simpson in my D3, all the pssengers swapped between vehicles - a 05 modified Patrol, 05 modified Pajero and my 05 D3. Everybody loved the comfort of the D3 especially over the mogul mounds and corrugations, there was no comparison. It did it so easily.
In fact it was the Patrol which had the issues including having to be left north of the French line in the desert for a week due to a stuffed alternator pulley which had to flown into Birdsville and taken back out repaired and driven back to Birdsville without brakes due to a cracked chassis!
Not a puncture between the 3 vehicles even though I did carry 2 spares as did everyone else.
Would I do it again in this D3 - yes most definitely.

Originally Posted by ~Rich~

I went out to the geographical centre of the Simpson in my D3, all the pssengers swapped between vehicles - a 05 modified Patrol, 05 modified Pajero and my 05 D3. Everybody loved the comfort of the D3 especially over the mogul mounds and corrugations, there was no comparison. It did it so easily.
In fact it was the Patrol which had the issues including having to be left north of the French line in the desert for a week due to a stuffed alternator pulley which had to flown into Birdsville and taken back out repaired and driven back to Birdsville without brakes due to a cracked chassis!
Not a puncture between the 3 vehicles even though I did carry 2 spares as did everyone else.
Would I do it again in this D3 - yes most definitely.

Good to hear Rich, glad you had a good trip and good experience with your D3. Very interesting to hear of both Defender and Disco drivers experiences in remote areas. Cheers

I'm not suggesting that price and ease of modification aren't advantages, just that they are irrelevant to this discussion.

The premise of the argument was that you can now pay as much for a Defender as a Disco, so is it worth paying that to get more off-road capability? I'd say no, but there are other reasons for doing it.

To say you need to spend $30k extra on a Disco to get the same capability is missing the point because you get a hell of a lot more than off-capability for your money. Whether or not those extras are worth it to an individual is a separate argument.

This discussion is particularly relevant to me because in a couple of weeks I am swapping my 3 year old D4 for a new Defender. To all intents and purposes I am paying the same amount for a Defender as a Disco. I love both vehicles but know I'm getting a lot less car for the money with the Defender. I still want to make the swap for many reasons but off-road capability as such is not one of them.

There are pros and cons for both vehicles off-road but the biggest disadvantage for a new Disco is its 19" rims. I've got mine into a lot of places on 19"s but there is no escaping the fact that they are a liability off-road and this would always swing it in favour of the Defender for me. However, its not worth spending the same money as a Disco for that reason alone.

Cheers,
Jon

Get rid of the 19"s, fit 18"s with decent rubber and the D4 will eat those remote trips.

That is not to say a Defender isn't a better choice of vehicle, but the Disco is far more robust and capable than some probably realise.

Cheers,
Jon

Originally Posted by jon3950

I'm not suggesting that price and ease of modification aren't advantages, just that they are irrelevant to this discussion.

The premise of the argument was that you can now pay as much for a Defender as a Disco, so is it worth paying that to get more off-road capability? I'd say no, but there are other reasons for doing it.

To say you need to spend $30k extra on a Disco to get the same capability is missing the point because you get a hell of a lot more than off-capability for your money. Whether or not those extras are worth it to an individual is a separate argument.

This discussion is particularly relevant to me because in a couple of weeks I am swapping my 3 year old D4 for a new Defender. To all intents and purposes I am paying the same amount for a Defender as a Disco. I love both vehicles but know I'm getting a lot less car for the money with the Defender. I still want to make the swap for many reasons but off-road capability as such is not one of them.

There are pros and cons for both vehicles off-road but the biggest disadvantage for a new Disco is its 19" rims. I've got mine into a lot of places on 19"s but there is no escaping the fact that they are a liability off-road and this would always swing it in favour of the Defender for me. However, its not worth spending the same money as a Disco for that reason alone.

Cheers,
Jon

You can pay nearly Disco price for a new defender (has to be a limited edition), but it's a choice. You don't (didn't) have to. A standard model (would have). Come at a much lesser price for "much less vehicle".

Likely there are good reasons to buy limited editions. No argument. Am only pointing to the special price attached to special editions does not apply for non-specials. For the OP comparo purposes a special edition at that price point is not a requirement.

For the OPs purpose a standard model, not a special, is well below disco price, delivers similar or better off-road performance. Even if "much less of a vehicle"

"Much less vehicle for the price" is only relevant comment when talking special edition defender. It doesn't have to be so.

Edit: (I.e. It can (could have) been a "much less vehicle for much less price" situation - yet still delivering as good or better off-road performance)