Thread: Which is better Off Road a D3/4 or a late model Defender? ... Puma 110

Originally Posted by Celtoid

I thought wheelbase was a variable .... as in different terrain or circumstances can suit either in different ways making one have an advantage over the other from time to time?

in my opinion a short to mid size wheel base is often more advantageous doing very technical driving then a long wheelbase

Nice vid Andy. Look 19's are really a hinderance off road especially miles from civilisation and even closer can cause heartache, diversion from the trip and (considerable) expense. They also hinder progress in soft sand. But think of it the other way. What a great machine it would be with 17 inch like you can spec in South Africa....why LRA does not offer it here i will never know. The 19's really are a crazy idea. I get them for a Range Rover but not on a vehicle that is meant (in theory - D1 and D2 was) to bridge the gap between Defender and Range Rover.

Cheers

Originally Posted by ozscott

Nice vid Andy. Look 19's are really a hinderance off road especially miles from civilisation and even closer can cause heartache, diversion from the trip and (considerable) expense. They also hinder progress in soft sand. But think of it the other way. What a great machine it would be with 17 inch like you can spec in South Africa....why LRA does not offer it here i will never know. The 19's really are a crazy idea. I get them for a Range Rover but not on a vehicle that is meant (in theory - D1 and D2 was) to bridge the gap between Defender and Range Rover.

Cheers

Totally agree,is absolutely ridiculous

Thats the reason i bought one of the last D4s that could take 17s.
In four years i have yet to change a tyre,and have done a heap of off roading

It is only in the last couple of years that LT tyres have been available here in 18 inch,and haven't been oversize.

OUCH!!!!
Passenger left a mess on the roof lining.
No C/P, Land Rover, Defender, Wagon - Pickles Auctions Australia
Andrew

Originally Posted by TerryO

While yes there are a number of differences between a RRS and a Disco Manic, there is a pretty good reason why this particular section is called the D3/D4/RRS section. ...

Which begs the question, why did you exclude it from your OP? The RRS owners got shunned from the rr forum and bundled in with you d3 d4 owners - yet still shunned. An official apology to RRS owners forthcoming?

So the question clarified : Is the d3, d4 OR rrs with aftermarket wheels, but not the newest rrs better than a stock defender (new PUMA with 110 body only) offroad?

The reason D4's are specced with 19" wheels = low profile tyres is simple. They are designed primarily for on road use. 90% of D4 owners will never take them off road. The fact that traditional 16" wheels are not able to be fitted is a ridiculous design flaw, agreed. But it does make it very clear what D4's are primarily designed for / what the Land Rover (Road Rover) target market is now. With the end of Defender there is now no purpose built off-road vehicle in the Land Rover range. It makes a total farce of the green oval badge IMO.

Originally Posted by ozscott

Nice vid Andy. Look 19's are really a hinderance off road especially miles from civilisation and even closer can cause heartache, diversion from the trip and (considerable) expense. They also hinder progress in soft sand. But think of it the other way. What a great machine it would be with 17 inch like you can spec in South Africa....why LRA does not offer it here i will never know. The 19's really are a crazy idea. I get them for a Range Rover but not on a vehicle that is meant (in theory - D1 and D2 was) to bridge the gap between Defender and Range Rover.

Cheers

In my opinion 19" rims is not such a big deal, check out how many sets of late model Defender mag wheels are for sale, many of those Defender owners who go off road change rims as well, so for serious off roading fitting non OEM rims is reasonably common.

Yes the 19's are a handicap off road, but there are a number of legal options that don't cost arms and legs that can get rid of the issue and will put late model Disco's on good rubber that is roughly what a Defender comes with standard.

Sometime ago I got a quote to have our D4 engineered with the slightly smaller D3 brakes and a set of 17's fitted and believe it or not even with the purchase of the 17" wheels and the D3 brakes from a wreckers and the engineering fee it's not a lot more than buying a set of Gordons 18's.

Another option is buying and having fitted the earlier callipers so LR OEM 18's will fit then have the mods engineered, if you feel so inclined.

It's up to the individual to decide how far they want to go with major mods for off roading, in reality very few D4 owners will want to go as far as changing brakes and having their pride and joy engineered, but it's not that hard, nor is it that expensive and if makes a massive difference off road and for outback touring.

The easiest option though is buying a set of Gordons 18" rims, in reality it is a $3,000 cost, not that big a deal. Yes you have to buy tyres but no matter what you have to buy off road tyres anyway as the standard issue aren't up to it, so I only count the cost of the rims and having two sets of rims is such a good thing, one set with highway tyres and the other with 32" MUDs so you can go off road with confidence and with decent sized and spec tyres and as a added bonus make Defenders look ordinary. ...

Originally Posted by TerryO

In my opinion 19" rims is not such a big deal, check out how many sets of late model Defender mag wheels are for sale, many of those Defender owners who go off road change rims as well, so for serious off roading fitting non OEM rims is reasonably common.

Yes the 19's are a handicap off road, but there are a number of legal options that don't cost arms and legs that can get rid of the issue and will put late model Disco's on good rubber that is roughly what a Defender comes with standard.

Sometime ago I got a quote to have our D4 engineered with the slightly smaller D3 brakes and a set of 17's fitted and believe it or not even with the purchase of the 17" wheels and the D3 brakes from a wreckers and the engineering fee it's not a lot more than buying a set of Gordons 18's.

Another option is buying and having fitted the earlier callipers so LR OEM 18's will fit then have the mods engineered, if you feel so inclined.

It's up to the individual to decide how far they want to go with major mods for off roading, in reality very few D4 owners will want to go as far as changing brakes and having their pride and joy engineered, but it's not that hard, nor is it that expensive and if makes a massive difference off road and for outback touring.

The easiest option though is buying a set of Gordons 18" rims, in reality it is a $3,000 cost, not that big a deal. Yes you have to buy tyres but no matter what you have to buy off road tyres anyway as the standard issue aren't up to it, so I only count the cost of the rims and having two sets of rims is such a good thing, one set with highway tyres and the other with 32" MUDs so you can go off road with confidence and with decent sized and spec tyres and as a added bonus make Defenders look ordinary. ...

Along with clearance and a 4WD system, effective HD wheel and tyre dimensions are the most basic requirement of a serious 4WD vehicle. I would say it is a big deal and a massive design oversight. Especially on an $80K+ vehicle. If you can't run standard 16's with tall tough sidewall tyres, you're at a big disadvantage. I wouldn't want to be looking for an 18" tyre in the middle of nowhere either. Has anyone modded their D4 to run 16's?