Thread: Can a Disco 4 tow a van with 350kg ball weight... I think not fit for purpose..

Originally Posted by donh54

TBW does NOT have to be 10% of ATM!
That figure came out years ago as a ballpark figure for trailer building/loading. It has never been included in any regulation that I am aware of.
All the figures in the world, punched into the most advanced supercomputer don't mean diddly squat.
What matters is what a weighbridge tells you. If you are not exceeding any of the required weights (GVM, GCM, ATM, tyre and axle weight limits), then you are fine. When you have it setup to those specs, get a copy of the weighbridge docket, and keep it in a safe place, for "just in case" scenarios.

Without reading 50 pages here, I tend to agree. 10% for a heavy trailer is way too much and makes the tow vehicle move around as it pushes the back around - also why LR quote really high pressures on the rear when towing.

I tend to think the most important thing, apart from overall weights, ok the 2nd most important thing is to keep the trailer loads centred over the axles with heavy stuff if anything forward of the axle to prevent sway, and to not go silly with ball weight - I look for about 25mm drop on the tow bar max when loading which is heaps and heaps. Your tow setup will handle really well in the corners and with stability. It also helps retain your ability to brake and doesn’t send you headlights too far up into the trees.

Originally Posted by Slunnie

- I look for about 25mm drop on the tow bar max when loading which is heaps and heaps. Your tow setup will handle really well in the corners and with stability. It also helps retain your ability to brake and doesn’t send you headlights too far up into the trees.

I used this method all the time, I look at the height of the tow ball drop as the load is applied.......

quite often I have to explain the the forklift driver why I want him to either push the pallet on more or drag it back that I’m looking for a small drop in height of the hitch instead of looking at where the load is on the trailer.

I noticed one towing guide recommended a TBW of 7-15%, which seemed good advice.
On the Defender I attach the load and then pump the rear airbags until the vehicle is level, using the Bubble level ap I downloaded to my phone.
A point made above about LR recommending high rear tyre pressures when towing is important. The placard recommends 48 in the rear of the Defender.

As an experiment I was towing my 1900kg laden camper trailer down south and wanted to see what difference LLAMS would make to the handling of the whole rig.

In a word, REMARKBLE.

At level height and at 175kg on the ball it handled ok. -20mm on LLAMS (with a minor forward movement of the trailer’s CoG, and subsequently increasing ball weight) it handled SO MUCH better both on straight and through bends.

Conversely, with LLAMS set to +20mm above it felt wallowy and bouncy.

I’ll keep LLAMS at standard height but I’ll be making a minor adjustment to my standard hitch height for sure.

Originally Posted by weeds

Bloody facebook is watching my every move

Hi Weeds, now the three of us are in agreement... I am still querying the 200kg reduction mentioned in the handbook, but I can work with this...

Dear Mr Tapper,

Thank you for your patience whilst we investigate into your query.

To confirm, our Product team have liaised with our UK Office for assistance with your weight and towing query.

They have advised based on your VIN details provided and Australian Design Rules:

Curb Weight = 2568 kg (that includes 90% fuel but not a Driver)

GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) = 3240 kg

GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) – 350 kg nose load = 2890 kg

2890 – 2568 kg = 322 kg available payload for passengers and cargo providing stipulations below are met.

- Make sure to never exceed the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW), the Gross Train Weight (GTW), or the front and rear axle weights.
- Include the trailer's nose weight when calculating the GVW and the rear axle weight.
- When calculating the vehicle's rear axle weight, the vehicle's payload weights must also be considered. Include the combined weights of all the rear passengers, the loadspace, roof rail, accessory equipment, and the trailer nose weight. The combined weights must never exceed the GVW or the maximum weights for the front and rear axles.
- Make sure that the GVW, the GTW, and the maximum rear axle weight limits are not exceeded when applying the trailer nose weight. If required, reduce the weight of the vehicle's payload.

For your records, it is best recommended to print a copy and leave one in your vehicle's glovebox for future reference.

Assuring you of our best intentions at all times.

Kind regards,


Daniel
Customer Relationship Centre Administrator
Jaguar Land Rover Australia

Cheers

David

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

If the actual weight of the vehicle is 2620kg then you have the difference between that and the GVW (not the tare) available as payload.
Do NOT deduct the 75kg driver or the fuel or the 150kg towball from the 2620 - they are already included.
If the maximum GVW is 3240kg then the available payload is 3240-2620=620kg.
If the towball increases above 150 then deduct that from the 620 e.g. if the towball was 350 then deduct 200 (350-150) from the payload, which is then 420.
Deduct the weight of your wife, kids, luggage etc and you should still be sweet.
Anyway, that's what I can figure.

Mick, got the following response from Land Rover...

Dear Mr Tapper,

Thank you for your patience whilst we investigate into your query.

To confirm, our Product team have liaised with our UK Office for assistance with your weight and towing query.

They have advised based on your VIN details provided and Australian Design Rules:

Curb Weight = 2568 kg (that includes 90% fuel but not a Driver)

GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) = 3240 kg

GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) – 350 kg nose load = 2890 kg

2890 – 2568 kg = 322 kg available payload for passengers and cargo providing stipulations below are met.

- Make sure to never exceed the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW), the Gross Train Weight (GTW), or the front and rear axle weights.
- Include the trailer's nose weight when calculating the GVW and the rear axle weight.
- When calculating the vehicle's rear axle weight, the vehicle's payload weights must also be considered. Include the combined weights of all the rear passengers, the loadspace, roof rail, accessory equipment, and the trailer nose weight. The combined weights must never exceed the GVW or the maximum weights for the front and rear axles.
- Make sure that the GVW, the GTW, and the maximum rear axle weight limits are not exceeded when applying the trailer nose weight. If required, reduce the weight of the vehicle's payload.

For your records, it is best recommended to print a copy and leave one in your vehicle's glovebox for future reference.

Assuring you of our best intentions at all times.

Kind regards,


Daniel
Customer Relationship Centre Administrator
Jaguar Land Rover Australia


I think it clarifies most things...

David

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

IF you load any landrover up to its max NET over TARE then you still have 150KG to go before you hit GVM. That 150kg is where the "free" 150KG comes from.

since the SII landrover has always done this as a method of getting around UK taxes. same reason as to why the original landies only had 2.248/2.249 l engines marketed as 2.25l instead of the 4.2's the toyotas were getting... TAX...

Ive posted Land Rovers response to me in case you want to check it....

Thanks. Interesting.