Disappointed in the D5 / waiting for the Defender

What all the live axle guys are forgetting is that to have long wheel travel you need long supple suspension,which means you compromise your high speed handing,weight carrying and towing.For me,I tow and tour over great distances so wheel travel is way down the list.Everything a compromise. Pat

Agreed Pat. It's all about what's important to the owner.

Cheers

So buy a Disco 5 with IFS, cupholders, -ve ion generator and (without electronics) about as off road capable as a Hyundai Getz [bigsmile1]. Didn't LR just showcase its outstanding outback towing characteristics by towing a 6 trailer, 110 plus tonne road train up the Stuart Highway ? Bloody marvelous. [bigsmile]

But if what's needed is a vehicle that actually approaches the capability of a 40 year old Land Rover (RRC) then well, I live in hope that Land Rover can come up with a vehicle to replace the Defender that is as off road capable as the one they developed 40 years ago. But I'm not holding my breath. [bigwhistle]

Deano :)

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Originally Posted by rick130

Not comparable, those numbers are how far it'll travel up a ramp, I'm taking actual bump/droop measurements between the bump stops.

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230mm on the rear from memory, but the bumpstops are large with large voids, so you need to add the voids. The bumpstops are so progressive its hard to know if you have ever bottomed out.

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Originally Posted by rick130

And FWIW I have no beef with IS, I reckon I could design a nice set-up, several lives ago I was paid to mod race car suspensions and geometry, you just need nice long wishbones, which reduces the CV angle which will always be the problem.

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A significantly better compromise is possible.

Deleted already responded to.

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Originally Posted by rick130

Umm, no.
I could position the spring pickup point probably further out board with a live axle than a conventional wishbone with the coil mounted off the bottom wishbone.
If i used pushrods I can mount the pickup point as far outboard as possible on both setups, maybe marginally further outboard on a wishbone setup, and using pushrods the bottom wishbone doesn't need to be as beefy, although with an off-roader we need it to be strong to cope with rocks.
Wishbone length is a real compromise as chassis and important things like an engine and ancillaries get in the way, and we still have the issue of CV angles due to short shafts

Road vs Off road is always a compromise, the only way to make something handle on road with minimal roll and still articulate off road is with something like active suspension, Land Rovers ACE or current pneumatic system or a Kinetic style system.

Live axles have worse ride on road due to the much, much greater unsprung weight, and this affects road holding too, and we have things like inherent shimmy to control, but it's the unsprung weight thing that helps off road.

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With independent, what is called the "wheel rate", the rate of the suspension at the wheel, at the tyre tread at the ground, is always proportionate to the spring rate, whether it is mounted on a wishbone or via a pushrod.

In contrast, unless you mount the coils on a solid axle directly in line with the centre of the tyres, there will be different effects to independent.

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Originally Posted by DeanoH

So buy a Disco 5 with IFS, cupholders, -ve ion generator and (without electronics) about as off road capable as a Hyundai Getz [bigsmile1]. Didn't LR just showcase its outstanding outback towing characteristics by towing a 6 trailer, 110 plus tonne road train up the Stuart Highway ? Bloody marvelous. [bigsmile]

But if what's needed is a vehicle that actually approaches the capability of a 40 year old Land Rover (RRC) then well, I live in hope that Land Rover can come up with a vehicle to replace the Defender that is as off road capable as the one they developed 40 years ago. But I'm not holding my breath. [bigwhistle]

Deano :)

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You get a RRC and I get a D5 and we'll see who goes further in the bush,I've got a sat phone you can borrow. Pat

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Originally Posted by PAT303

You get a RRC and I get a D5 and we'll see who goes further in the bush,I've got a sat phone you can borrow. Pat

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If a subframe drop on the D5 is possible, combine that with longer wishbones and bigger tyres, and it will beat a RRC, as long as the rest of it keeps working.

Rubbish,a stock D5 would leave a stock RRC behind,and use less fuel,be more comfortable,safer,faster etc while it does it. Pat