Disappointed in the D5 / waiting for the Defender

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Originally Posted by rammypluge

What has typically been of interest to me in a vehicle is the fundamentals; how stiff the chassis/monocoque is, the NVH, what the power and torque to weight is, the nature of the power delivery, interior space and comfort, body styling, fuel economy, off road ability, load carrying, value for money, etc. These in my view are what sets cars apart. The electrickery expansion hasnt won me over at all, but more than that, they are designing cars in ways that reduce the control of the driver, and that rubs me the wrong way something savage.

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Yep and that is why the D5 is a bit of a fail already. I liked the D3 when it came out, so no issue there.
My list of items in a 4x4 (and it may change slightly when kids no longer travel with us)
1: 4x4 ability
2: Load Space (One of the major things that concerns me with the D5)
3: Ability to maintain and repair when 1000kms from anywhere (#1 on my list of things that concern me with the D5)
4: Fuel economy
5: Value / Price (#2 as pretty much out of the price range of most people)
6: Body styling (while low on the list will still play some part).
7: Manual vs Auto (getting less important though)
8: Diesel vs Petrol
9: Towing capacity and ability (not just capacity alone)
9: Can my wife drive it easily?
10: Servicing cost and cost of parts
I am sure the D5 ticks all of these except 2,c3, 5, 6, 10

With all that said it is likely if we buy a new 4x4 it will be a Colorado or similar as still affordable. The D5 is out new due to $. The other option is a Toyota twin cab V8 diesel but again new way too many $ for what it is. Maybe second hand D4 or RR but only if we can pay cash. The Colorado or similar makes sense as you can usually find one of them with 0% finance or around 2%. Buy a used car and it can be 10%-20% depending on finance, so can make a second hand car dearer than a new one in some cases.

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Originally Posted by rar110

When the Range Rover first appeared, the series owners were saying things like said in this thread. I spoke to Mal Storey before he sold up and said he wouldn’t rely on anything JLR after 1988. The new Defender 200tdi was rubbish, as was the 5 speed Range Rover. Interesting perspectives in the context of this thread.

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That's why I had no time for him,many on here thinks he's a LR god,I thought he had some good idea's but his ignorance and reluctance to accept change overroad everything he had to say. Pat

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Originally Posted by rammypluge

Dunno, we quickly realised what wires were severed and rejoined them, but it still didnt work. I had checked the 60 trillion fuses and all seemed okay. So we were looking for other solutions, thinking of all those obscure possibilities, whether the car needed to relearn things, whether wires needed to have a certain resistance which would have been changed, etc. After much headscratching another check of the 60 trillion fuses found one popped. Replaced that and it ran but with almost a dash full of warnings and still windows not working properly. A scan tool cleared a few codes. Numerous restarts cleared the rest. So hard to believe they would design a system so vulnerable.

The wires were for the transmission. What have they got to do with the electric windows, airbag warning light, etc?

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Without trying I could think of 50 situations were an older vehicle has stopped dead because of water in the dizzy,or cracked insulation causing a lose of spark,or the time I towed my mates 2H for 5k's trying to get the POS started because the glow plugs stopped working,or the time my other mates FJ45 wouldn't start because the condenser wire was broken inside the insulation,that was a good day and a half.The wire to the gearbox is an earth wire,every vehicle has one,and when it's not connected the system earths were ever it can causing all sorts of drama.Regardless of vehicle,it you have weird electrical issue's like the tail lights coming on with the blinkers or windows not working check the earths first,all of them,before you do anything else. Pat

My take on my situation is, if it wasnt for canbus, we would still have rejoined the five or six wires to the transmission, and checked the fuses, and if that didnt get it going, we would have checked the fuses again. It would have been fixed in hours, not days. Canbus just added a heap of confusion and the window problem.

If you went back further in time there wouldnt have been wires to the transmission in the first place.

But anyway, i am not a luddite, for example i think most technology is great including smartphones, green energy, etc. But all new things arent necessarily progress, or not at first. Its often more about how we use and manage technology, doing it smart and logically.

If they were designing cars for remote areas i expect they would do them differently if they cared. The whole premise of needing a code reader is a form of corruption. They could so easily have the information come up on the dashboard; 'Transmission wires non continuous', 'fuse number xx failed, go to fuse panel near right knee etc...'.

We know large corporations have more resources to be devious. We know they want us to get them to service our vehicles. I reckon they deliberately make some new vehicles awkward to service to discourage owners and non dealer servicers from working on them. Its a form of corruption and we are letting them get away with it. If we all placed more emphasis on these factors when making purchasing decisions would could possibly turn things around. They could easily make things a lot easier.

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Originally Posted by rammypluge

If they were designing cars for remote areas i expect they would do them differently if they cared. The whole premise of needing a code reader is a form of corruption. They could so easily have the information come up on the dashboard; 'Transmission wires non continuous', 'fuse number xx failed, go to fuse panel near right knee etc...'.

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Sounds like a photocopier, where you get a step by step instruction on how to clear a paper jam. Of course, never once have those instructions been correct... In fact, usually you still need to wait for the office copier whisperer (the LR mechanic in this scenario) to come along and fix it...

I have no issue with the modern cars - in fact, i have far more chance of successfully clearing a fault with my iphone equipped diagnostic tool than I do changing a wheel bearing.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

And again it turns into a Luddite festival of doom and gloom...

Strange how all the brands full of electrickery seem to make it home without the nightly news full of tales of death by technology in outback Australia... 🤡

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Ha, ha ha ...................................

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

Fair go Tombie, just because some prefer simple over complex, especially when traveling in remote areas doesn't make them a Luddite it makes them sensible.[bigsmile1]

I suppose if I supported the 'No' campaign I'd be labelled as 'homophobic' or disagreed with the governments aboriginal welfare system I'd be 'racist' ?



AFAIK Land Rover has 1 dealer in inland Australia (Alice Springs) so a 'failure to proceed' often means a flat top to the coast and holiday ruined. Not everyone has the capacity (or interest) to own their own 'scantool' let alone how to interpret the results and apply a fix, [bigsmile1] and spare parts availability away from the coast is zero. I'm far more likely to be able to source parts for a 20 year old Perkins/Cummins powered Dana drive trained Oka than for any Land Rover. As was noted earlier your average outback mechanic is able and resourced to fix the more simple/common vehicles. I've lost count of the number of electrickery (to use your words) vehicles I've seen flat topped out of Birdsville for example and sympathise with the various familys' disappointment and expense.

There's nothing wrong with your electrickery vehicles. They're designed and made to meet a particular market and like most other 4WD vehicles can be modified to give some enhanced capabilities. But as a solid, reliable and remote seriously off road vehicle, only in the eyes of the most ardent rose coloured glasses owner. There's nothing wrong with this, it's not a put down. The Disco is made to fill a particular market and it does it well and with LLAMS, decent tyres and other mods and suitable training/experience it can go a long way. [bigsmile1] BUT, not far enough to suit my needs. What I want is different and is a fairly specialised market not generally catered to. There's a chance that the new Defender could meet or be adapted to meet this role. I wait with baited breath but not confidence [bighmmm]

Deano :)

How come some people will happily spend thousands on unnecessary extras, (big wheels and tyres, winches, every conceivable gadget hanging off the dash), but figure a Faultmate or Nanocom is not an essential part of their outback toolkit?
If you are taking any late model vehicle off the beaten track, some form of diagnostic reader (and learning how to decipher it's messages) seems like a no-brainer to me.

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Originally Posted by DeanoH

Ha, ha ha ...................................

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

Fair go Tombie, just because some prefer simple over complex, especially when traveling in remote areas doesn't make them a Luddite it makes them sensible.[bigsmile1]

I suppose if I supported the 'No' campaign I'd be labelled as 'homophobic' or disagreed with the governments aboriginal welfare system I'd be 'racist' ?
[...]
Deano :)

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Fair go Deano....
* Voting No - completely unfair to call you homophobic
* Disagreeing with Aboriginal Policy - completely unfair to call you racist


Calling out the strawman argument - am totally ok with you or others having a preference for simpler vehicles. Older vehicles. But if that preference is solely or even largely due to opposition to new tech:
* Sorry mate but it appears that by definition you are a luddite. Not an unfair call. [biggrin]


Dictionary def'n "Luddite"
derogatory
a person opposed to increased industrialization or new technology.
"a small-minded Luddite resisting progress"

In fact, i am so not a luddite in my view, that i had previously gone into the OBD2 port and altered a couple of settings.

It seems these days due to canbus, if you want to go 4wding, better take your laptop!!

Firstly Deano,

Don’t drag some bloody political rights debate into a discussion it makes you look ridiculous.
Adding a comment on Government welfare makes you look like a Peanut...

Any remote travelling vehicle should be carrying tools and some fundamental spares.
This may be water pumps, hoses, filters, spark plugs, wire, rotor, distributor cap, wheel bearings etc.

Tools would be wire cutters/crimping, spammers, sockets, tape, cable ties, multimeter etc etc And should have a WS manual for good measure.

In the case of a later vehicle this took set needs a ScanTool and a few critical sensors. Nothing fancy, just the right tool for the job.

A failure at Birdsville can be no worse than an older vehicle... mechanical failures mean parts - simple... electrical sensors is parts replacement - again simple..

If they go “warranty recovery” over “pay mechanic to fix” that’s simple economics. After all your OKA doesn’t exactly have factory warranty anymore! Although for either you will need to wait for PARTS to be shipped in - won’t you!

So why would your OKA be needing the mechanic? I thought it’s so reliable it can’t fail.. not like the new ones which apparently are dropping like flies... so many you’ve lost count.. or did you run out of fingers and get confused? [emoji48]. You certainly won’t find a heap of old vehicles being trucked out, as proportionally there’s stuff all out there anymore...

I would (and do) take modern vehicles into seriously remote areas without a single concern... have for years... Don’t carry a Sat phone, epirb or HF...

Not once has any (multiple brands) vehicle ever let me down and left me stranded..

These modern units are solid, and reliable..

If they built it like a bread tin and fitted rubber floors I doubt this discussion would even take place...

Like people commenting on D5 being harder to maintain than a D3/D4 it’s all fantasy...

Seems to be that several who disagree with modern technology are those stuck in the era of Rose Coloured Glasses, Free Love and Doors music [emoji6]