Disappointed in the D5 / waiting for the Defender

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Originally Posted by rammypluge

[...]It seems these days due to canbus, if you want to go 4wding, better take your laptop!!

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Wot rot. I travel with iPhone and my BAS tool (plugs into OBD port and talks to mobile devices via bluetooth). Checks/resets faults and gives live data from sensors etc.

Haven't had to use it in the jungles at all in the 4yrs I have been driving my Defender. The only use it has ever seen is turning back to stock tune when leaving the vehicle with a service centre.

I used to worry about being in a situation where I could not disable the immobiliser in the deep jungle. (Lost or damaged central locking fob.) So I used to always bring a spare set of keys and place them with an accompanying vehicle. (Or secure them in a waterproof container strapped outside my vehicle cabin if travelling alone.)

A little less worried now that I have a working EKA code.

Remote area travel requires one knows their vehicle, and carries appropriate spares. A spare ABS wheel sensor and engine ECU may not be needed spares if you drive an ox cart.

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Originally Posted by tact

Fair go Deano....

......................... Calling out the strawman argument - am totally ok with you or others having a preference for simpler vehicles. Older vehicles. But if that preference is solely or even largely due to opposition to new tech:
* Sorry mate but it appears that by definition you are a luddite. Not an unfair call. [biggrin]


Dictionary def'n "Luddite"
derogatory
a person opposed to increased industrialization or new technology.
"a small-minded Luddite resisting progress"

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I'll have too look that one up [bigsmile1]

If you'd read my posts you'll see that at no time have I opposed new technology for the sake of technology. My position is that when traveling I reckon simple is better. [bigsmile1] Far easier to understand and keep a 'simple' vehicle going IMO. Generic parts (in the case of the Oka the whole vehicle is made from generic parts) can make it easier to source replacements if needed. And no I don't make any claims as towards the Oka's invincibility but it is a very simple and robust vehicle but it is also subject to the same mechanical failures as any other vehicle. The big difference when compared to a 'modern' vehicle is that there are no vehicle electronics apart from the speedo and tacho so the knowledge and skills required to keep it going is much less. Very similar to my old Defenders and early D1 in fact, just bigger :). This means less reliance on specialised skills that may not be readily available especially in remote or isolated places such as Birdsville and knowing that local expertise is sufficient to keep my vehicle (and holiday) going.

If I was a real Luddite (or just foolish) I'd travel remotely without HF, Satphone or EPIRB. Not to mention TPMS, digital camera, music system or laptop which all add to my traveling safety and enjoyment :)

No I am not a Luddite I just prefer to keep things simple, or should that be unnecessarily complicated ? :)

Deano :)

The majority of the above are valid arguments and all relative to situation, knowledge, expertise, etc. But it's pretty clear that the more complex a vehicle becomes, the more there is to go wrong. The more spares you need to carry and the more knowledge you need to acquire. It's not about being a luddite or a dinosaur - it's about the fact that there is more to go wrong, more knowledge to acquire and less regional / remote service available.

...so has anyone driven a D5 out of the city yet? [tonguewink][bigwhistle]

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Originally Posted by tact

Calling out the strawman argument - [biggrin]

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I looked it up and though I can see your point I don't concede it, [bigsmile1] preferring things simple, as you say doesn't make one a Luddite.

I thought this a far better example of a strawman argument, not to mention(though I will)[biggrin]an "attacking the man and not the ball" argumenttoo [bigsmile]

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Originally Posted by Tombie

Firstly Deano,

Don’t drag some bloody political rights debate into a discussion it makes you look ridiculous.
Adding a comment on Government welfare makes you look like a Peanut...

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🥜

ps. at the risk (again) of getting back on topic, the lines are blurring for me of LR's market placement of an increasing range of Range Rover badged vehicles and the where the D5 sits and hope there's a more definite distinction with the much awaited Defender replacement. I hope it will be something more than a plastic fantastic rebadged D5 or whatever) to fit the US SUV market.

Deano :)

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Originally Posted by DeanoH

... a 'failure to proceed' often means a flat top to the coast and holiday ruined. Not everyone has the capacity (or interest) to own their own 'scantool' let alone how to interpret the results and apply a fix ...

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For some people a 'failure to proceed' is a flat tyre. They've never (had the capacity or interest or) learnt how to change one, or how to safely use a jack. They just call roadside assist.

If you have any interest in saving your bacon when touring to any remote places, then you should have some interest in the basic workings of your vehicle, whether it be new or old. A scan tool isn't that expensive nor hard to use to fault find, and even if you dont have the capacity to fix the issue yourself, you at least have some idea of whats wrong when you're calling around to find a mechanic to work on it.

Even just knowing what a 'hard reset' can solve all sorts of problems...

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Originally Posted by Disco-tastic

For some people a 'failure to proceed' is a flat tyre. They've never (had the capacity or interest or) learnt how to change one, or how to safely use a jack. They just call roadside assist.

If you have any interest in saving your bacon when touring to any remote places, then you should have some interest in the basic workings of your vehicle, whether it be new or old. A scan tool isn't that expensive nor hard to use to fault find, and even if you dont have the capacity to fix the issue yourself, you at least have some idea of whats wrong when you're calling around to find a mechanic to work on it.

Even just knowing what a 'hard reset' can solve all sorts of problems...

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You're right of course, and without the requisite skills the trick being finding a competent (and willing) mechanic to work on it. :)

Several years ago I owned a mid 90's Jeep Cherokee. Its ECU could display fault codes on the speedo display which was a boon to fault isolation. Crude but effective. As someone mentioned earlier and with the plethora of LCD displays and such and computerisation in modern vehicles it shouldn't be too difficult to come up with a more modern version.

Deano :)

It's a shame people argue a point based on what they believe is right instead of the truth, which, unfortunately turns threads like this one into pointless crap. Pat

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Originally Posted by DeanoH

If I was a real Luddite (or just foolish) I'd travel remotely without HF, Satphone or EPIRB. Not to mention TPMS, digital camera, music system or laptop which all add to my traveling safety and enjoyment :)

Deano :)

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Cute!!!

It’s been risk assessed to travel without the top 3...
Why? Because they’re a waste of money in many instances. And often not useful for the circumstances proposed to need them for.

I too keep some things simple - I give a detailed itinerary, check in when travelling and have an action plan in place..

Let’s assume you travel alone:
Firstly - unless you carry your PLB on your person it’s useless - heart attack - you’ll never get to it, and you’ll be dead before they arrive.

Similarly for HF and Satphone..

Assuming snake bite - you may be ok if you’re fit and know how to deal with it correctly; running back to the vehicle will likely not have that result! A mechanical issue or injury - simple; if I don’t check in when expected the plan cuts in... easy...


All nice to have but completely unnecessary when travelling alone...

Do you carry a spare of each in case the electrickery inside decides to spontaneously fail? [emoji48]


I spent ages working solo remote, and the remoteness was the least of the challenges...

Guys can we get back on topic please?

I think its fair to say that everyone has a different opinion and idea of what "offroad" means to them.
My idea of "serious offroad" may or may not be different to yours and as a result I've built my vehicle to address the weak points it has when tackling my idea of "offroad".

"Offroad" to me means:

- approach angles, traversing and break over angles must be excellent.

- all corners of the vehicle must be easily protected from damage or impact when traveling through deep ruts with high banks for example.

- a decent to excellent payload with a cargo area that is both practicle and efficient

- solid axles and large tyres with a excellent side wall and large footprint (ie 255/85/16)

- lockers both front and rear

- decent fuel economy

- comfortable. It might be hard to believe for some but my defender has a extremely comfortable seating position. Im 6ft and have had spinal surgery and i dont get any back pain driving my truck over long journeys.

- the ability to see all corners of my vehicle eaily

The points above are important to me, i need my truck to be able to give me the ability to tour comfortably but also go out and keep up (usually show up) with Patrols and cruisers on 35s and 37s on track days for example. My truck is a "truck", its a purpose built vehicle that i have fun in and more importantly have confidence in. I can confidently tackle rutted terrain with high side banks and not risk panel damage.

The d5 for me does not meet my criteria.

Now ill wait for someone to tell me that my idea of "offroad" is wrong and that i should be driving a d5 if i wanted a serious offroader . [emoji16]

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Originally Posted by donh54

How come some people will happily spend thousands on unnecessary extras, (big wheels and tyres, winches, every conceivable gadget hanging off the dash), but figure a Faultmate or Nanocom is not an essential part of their outback toolkit?
If you are taking any late model vehicle off the beaten track, some form of diagnostic reader (and learning how to decipher it's messages) seems like a no-brainer to me.

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Well, in my case, apart from this 'new' development being something some people have to catch up with, i havent had any issues that would warrant a code reader per se. Any issues that have happenned have been diagnosable and solvable separate to canbus. All the issues i have had that might warrant the extra kit have been with canbus itself, creating unnecessary and confusing signals. So its a double whammy to have to carry a laptop and cable just to inform myself on what spastic situation canbus has gotten itself into this time.

The idea that big tyres and some other accessories are unecessary just says you are either inexperienced, dont look for challenges, or drive a banger that you dont care about damaging. I agree some or many overdo it, but its often just as much about preventing damage to the vehicle as making it more capable. Off road enough and damage can accumulate and cost more and cause more issues than prevention.