L660 or L663

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17th December 2018, 04:20 PM
cjc_td5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeros

You mean $50-60K work utes. Sure if it’s a work vehicle. Not so much if it’s a ‘lifestyle’ SUV. Any New model Land Rovers? Not many I reckon.

Plenty of farmers drive GXL 70 series utes when they could have a Workmate version. Bling does sell sometimes...
17th December 2018, 04:26 PM
Zeros

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjc_td5

Plenty of farmers drive GXL 70 series utes when they could have a Workmate version. Bling does sell sometimes...

:Rolling::Rolling:I wouldn’t call a 70 GXL bling! You mean it’s got power windows? :-)

But yes, as I keep saying, IF the Defender is a real work ute / wagon it might have a shot, but I doubt it will be...which means even wealthy farmers won’t buy a D5 or Rangie as a town car either.
17th December 2018, 04:35 PM
Zeros

Quote:

Originally Posted by veebs

They may not buy Land Rovers, but that is not because they are too expensive.

No it’s because Land Rovers are no longer designed for the bush.
17th December 2018, 04:43 PM
veebs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeros

But yes, as I keep saying, IF the Defender is a real work ute / wagon it might have a shot, but I doubt it will be...which means even wealthy farmers won’t buy a D5 or Rangie as a town car either.

Come again? A farmer will only buy a flash town car if there is also a simpleton, "work" edition under the same marque? What bull****.

A GX 70 series retails for $78k, but as you keep saying, it will never sell, because people only want to buy $50-60k vehicles. Toyota are such fools! Clearly they have completely misunderstood their market.
17th December 2018, 05:06 PM
Zeros

Quote:

Originally Posted by veebs

Come again? A farmer will only buy a flash town car if there is also a simpleton, "work" edition under the same marque? What bull****.

Um...how many Land Rover SUV’s are they buying?

Quote:

Originally Posted by veebs

A GX 70 series retails for $78k, but as you keep saying, it will never sell, because people only want to buy $50-60k vehicles. Toyota are such fools! Clearly they have completely misunderstood their market.

No, you’re missing my point. The reason the new Defender won’t sell is not because of the price. It’s because it’s unlikely to be a real work vehicle. ...A GX 70 is a HD work vehicle. Then the GX 70 owner will be more likely to buy a 200 Cruiser as a town car than a D5.

It’s obvious that without a credible work vehicle, Land Rover have lost the country market.
17th December 2018, 05:25 PM
veebs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeros

No, you’re missing my point. The reason the new Defender won’t sell is not because of the price. It’s because it’s unlikely to be a real work vehicle. ...A GX 70 is a HD work vehicle. Then the GX 70 owner will be more likely to buy a 200 Cruiser as a town car than a D5.

It’s obvious that without a credible work vehicle, Land Rover have lost the country market.

I'm missing it, because your point has shifted since I first replied. You started by announcing LR would fail because it was surely going to be too expensive.

Land rover lost the country market years ago - long before the Defender stopped production. The lack of credible work vehicle can't be the reason then, can it?
17th December 2018, 05:42 PM
Zeros

Quote:

Originally Posted by veebs

I'm missing it, because your point has shifted since I first replied. You started by announcing LR would fail because it was surely going to be too expensive.

Land rover lost the country market years ago - long before the Defender stopped production. The lack of credible work vehicle can't be the reason then, can it?

We were debating work utes in the $50-60K band vs city centric SUV's in the $80K+ band. I would be very surprised if the new Defender is $60K. If it is, it will be smaller than the classic Defender or 70 series and competing in the dual cab / mid-duty SUV market. If it's full size like a 70 series it will be $80K+ and potentially sell well. But I doubt it will be.

To me the new Defender spy shots look like a D4 type family 'adventure' vehicle which will be in the same price bracket as the D5. As such it won't sell in country areas because its not a work vehicle and if a 70 series owner really wanted a Land Rover town car (which I doubt) it would be more likely to be a D5 because they already have a work vehicle.

Sure I may be entirely wrong. But that's what I think. You don't have to think the same.

If you think rural buyers are going to by the new Defender that's great! but I can't see it...because as you say, "Land Rover lost the country market years ago." What I'm saying is they're not going to get it back with the new Defender by the looks of it either - which will affect their urban SUV sales too.
17th December 2018, 06:53 PM
rar110

L660 or L663

I can see JLR wanting to slot a product in between the Toyota 70 series and G Professional. It’s a big price gap between these two. It would be pretty easy to offer a single cab bare bones edition, with more features than both.

Business people like farmers are trying new vehicles like the Mahindra. A different market again.
17th December 2018, 10:07 PM
blackrangie
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBD4

They are absolutely going for a different market. The existing defender base was a 20K unit P/A demand, at that rate the new vehicle would never succeed. They are targeting the "Life Style" market.

some months ago I had a conversation with someone who has sat their backside in one of these earlier this year and basically said:

Aiming for life style market.
"Sort of like the D4"
expected price range 60K to 110K AUD
Based on D5 platform (hardened)
90, 110 coming and 130 too which apparently is "huge"
priority is the 90 and 110
Current defender owners most likely will not like it
Its capability is very impressive - G wagon is nothing (This, I think, is the most important point of all as the credibility of the brand rests on this being true)

Take all of the above with a grain of salt - things change.

While they may not be catering to the current defender market that's not to say that they will not in the future. After all, there was and is a commercial version of the the Disco (ie no carpets etc.). The main impediment to getting the commercial version here in Oz if one was produced would be LRA themselves - as I understand it, they decide what comes here unfortunately and they most likely will not want to muddy their premium status.

it would be nice to have some indication of where things are being pointed, we really just have to wait and see....like we've been doing.
Capability, reliability and looks are the only things that mater, I think they will do their best to nail all of these.
17th December 2018, 10:21 PM
blackrangie

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBD4

Perhaps credit it with being a little more than spin given the source. I know there's not a lot of new info there, it's about giving some credence to what has been said so far.

Well, no not really. There is a big hole in their market coverage, they have luxury (Range Rover) and family/leisure (Discovery) covered, life style/adventure is missing.

Ultimately, I believe it can only be it's capability and durability. When it comes to the Defender that is the only thing that matters. We'll soon see.

I wouldn't get too hung up on those spy shots... filled in wheel arches, increased belt line padded panels, window apertures changed. It's disguised. It's every bit the size of other full size models. Incidentally, I would consider the "G" wagen "diminutive" too in its standard guise but no one questions its capability.

If the "G" (which seems to be lauded by all) is starting well north of 100K in commercial form then 60K to 110K is going to work fine. IF a commercial version is released I would hazard a guess it may be cheaper without the bells and whistles added in. Honestly Land Rover will not be interested in competing in that market on price. If it's going to happen they'll make a product that people want and are willing to pay for, that's what they've been doing for a while now.

Why? What do the spy shots tell you about it's capability? Nothing really to be said until a head to head comparison can be done. All the statement does (and this has been said by Land Rover too) is give us some hope that the brand is focused on making sure the new defender lives up to its name.

Do you think that a small capacity 4 is unworkable? Interesting as that is what your defender has in it and the small capacity 4's that LR are making now have serious numbers. As for EV, well, that's where it's at. We've all seen the advancement in this space and there is no way that any serious manufacturer can ignore it.

As with every thread on this topic, it's all speculation, but one thing I am certain of is that anyone who wants the replacement to be like the old one can forget it.

From earlier this year...lets hope he is true to his word:
Gerry McGovern Gets Frank About Land Rover Design | Alloy+Grit

Last two paragraphs say it all, very promising. Imo the defenders features, looks and capability are going to be so good, people won't care how modern it is.

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