Won’t be retro...

The Engine oil cooler and auto cooler is an interesting one and one I believe to be another inovative JLR decision. For low temps and better performance in any conditions having rad, condenser, auto, cooler, engine oil cooler and in some cases intercooler infront all bunched in together just doesn't work.

I too had this dilemma with my LS RRC, couldn't cool it enough with the auto, engine oil cooler, condenser + water to air intercooler infront of the rad, i looked at what the SVR did and wanted to do the same as its just the best spot, but couldn't make it work.

Ended up with twin coolers on a subframe built by LRA behind the bash plate with enough room for plate deformation, and twin spals.
Rad is fairly unobstructed now and works just to cool the engine water only.
Temps all around are always low now coupled with a few other things.

The twin lower coolers don't seem to get too muddy and fairly easy to wash if they do, however i really don't like them there, i wish they could be in exactly the same spot as the D5.


Now assuming JLR are not messing with us with the mule vents, which they very well could be.
Lets look at the D5 twin cooler location off-road suitability. See pics, approach angle with air is 34deg with 2 inch rods I'm guessing a few more degrees on that.
D5 in vid is access height, put in offroad height and coolers are nice and high (see pics)

New Defender 45 deg approach, 50 deg depart (based on mule, alloy and grit angles)

Discovery 5 34 deg approach, 30 deg depart.

Nissan Y62 34.3 deg approach, 26.2 depart.

Cruiser 200 series 30 deg approach, 20 depart.


When you look at the location of the coolers in offroad mode, I cant see a problem, they are nice and high and with a good bar will be protected, ECB D5 bar has vents, but want to see a bar that removes the standard bumper.

Moving onto the new defender looking as though the approach angle is going to be a huge improvement on the D5 and D5 is best in class, suffice to say it will be even more of a non issue and ensures it keeps its cool and all coolers to be cleaned.

Air suspension, again in his video looks like an old Rangie with old air suspension, from what i have read, it seems to be the general consensus on this forum that the air D4 is far better than a coil one, both on/off-road and reasonably reliable.

The coil New Defender would have to perform very very well for me to not choose air, too many benefits imo.

Imo the vid and its title are designed to be controversial to get shares and comments(worked), from where I'm sitting wheel concern looks to not exist, approach angles better than nearly everything bar a hummer haha, and generally people will chose air over coil as its superior in nearly all scenerios and reasonably reliable if preventitivly maintained like on trucks.

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Those radiators/coolers clearly hang much lower than your orange markups and it’s clear that their piping runs lower again with significant chance of hangup or damage from a branch on the track IMO.

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Originally Posted by Zeros

Those radiators/coolers clearly hang much lower than your orange markups and it’s clear that their piping runs lower again with significant chance of hangup or damage from a branch on the track IMO.

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Not to mention animal strikes or even a simple fender bender and without any significant frontal protection these radiators look incredibly vunerable to damage.

Yep agreed. A sign of the times to suit design and cost needs over off road reliability and practicality. Blackrangie from memory RRC had a much smaller radiator than the D2 cross flow and was known for marginal cooling. The D2 has everything up front (mine for e.g. has engine oil cooler, trans cooler, a.c. condenser and radiator) and I have towed a 2 tonne van through sand in the height of summer in Qld and other crazy stuff and the system works well so LR can do it right if they want to.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Zeros

Those radiators/coolers clearly hang much lower than your orange markups and it’s clear that their piping runs lower again with significant chance of hangup or damage from a branch on the track IMO.

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Hey, hear where your coming from, this pic was done as an example to show when lifted the coolers approx position (not access height when everything is low)

If you look at the specs, D5s drop 1.6inches from normal height. And raises 2.95inches from normal height, so in total lifts 4.5inches higher than in pic on off-road high mode, its not a cad drawing but by my eyes the orange is pretty close imo.

Good point with the lower piping, however that only drops down near the chassis area, which is fully behind the bash plate area, which an upgraded unit i believe is already in the works by multiple co's.

Looking at the D5 pic with the winch, you can see the D5 design for the vent has intrusion in mind, its not often you drive straight into hard trees or branches pointing up and into the rad area(orange branch), fair few D5s on here getting around OZ now haven't heard any issues like that, most branches are like the grey ones from my experience, unless you are full bush bashing a trail in. If you look closely it also has a decent mesh, anything that gets through that is going to be too small to be an issue, or huge and broke through it and your an idiot for driving straight into a massive branch pointing at your rad area.

Anyone that uses it properly offroad will get a bullbar which protects it even more both from frontal impact and intrusion. Good bullbar with metal mesh behind would do the trick, however the standard unit would do the trick also for most people.

Its defs something to be mindful of protecting I agree, but nowhere near the issue raised in the vid showing it in access height 4.5imches lower than where it would normally sit.

With the approach angle of the disco, everything is up very high and close off-road. New defender it seems even more so again. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...be3bfdbce1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...1992b68552.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f2f5eaff01.jpg

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Originally Posted by trout1105

Not to mention animal strikes or even a simple fender bender and without any significant frontal protection these radiators look incredibly vunerable to damage.

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Agree 100% ecb bar as just posted is an easy fix, but more options are needed imo, ones that loose the original bumper. Rhino had one in the works, others to follow.

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Originally Posted by ozscott

Yep agreed. A sign of the times to suit design and cost needs over off road reliability and practicality. Blackrangie from memory RRC had a much smaller radiator than the D2 cross flow and was known for marginal cooling. The D2 has everything up front (mine for e.g. has engine oil cooler, trans cooler, a.c. condenser and radiator) and I have towed a 2 tonne van through sand in the height of summer in Qld and other crazy stuff and the system works well so LR can do it right if they want to.

Cheers

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See what your saying there however like me they have no doubt found moving them away from rad gives a massive difference it hot weather cooling and hence reliability, yes it creates a nightmare for bullbar designers, but hey if you can get the bar right you've got a very reliable scenario in all temps and max performance as everything's running cooler. I could be wrong but does all the heat from the coolers not even reach the engine bay in this design?

I also have a custom water to air intercooler running along the bottom of front of rad.

Its those 40deg days that really test out a system, if it can run flat out in those temps you have it right. I believe that's how the suidis role so JLR must accommodate.

Impressive with the D2, What output did the engine have Scott?

Mate it was stock 4.0 for many years and in the last few years 4.6 (both high compression stockers and running stock 5 speed manual ).

You may be right as long as a strong bull bar is used.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by ozscott

Mate it was stock 4.0 for many years and in the last few years 4.6 (both high compression stockers and running stock 5 speed manual ).

You may be right as long as a strong bull bar is used.

Cheers

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Niice 4.6L D2 [emoji7]

Ive got a pretty crazy output LS engine but its still smooth and refined when you want it to be (LSA) so she needs some cooling, very similar to the SVR RRS engine
Bonnet scoop also helps on freeway and letting hot air out crawling, as do the cruiser vents on bonnet sides.

IMO Those Radiators make the D5 and any other model with them fitted the laughing stock of all 4x4 , What a absolute joke !