Land Rover takes aim at X-Class - motoring.com.au
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It's water under the bridge now, as they must be close to finished the New Defender, but I would have liked Tata to have taken over the Defender project from JLR.
Tata are better placed to make a vehicle more in line with the original Series/Defender heritage - a world people's utility vehicle. When you think of Landrover, you think of Africa, dust, people and animals piled into them and on their roof racks on some God-forsaken third-world road, up to their axles in bulldust. Can JLR still do that?
Tata could have used any Rover technology that they wanted, but cranked out a simple, strong all-road people's car at the right price from their Indian factories. It could have been an explosive success, greater than the unexpected success of the original in the 1950's.
There seems to me a huge gap in the 4WD market at present. Landcruiser has gone big, expensive and fuel-thirsty, more than what a 4wd ute really needs. Hilux has gone a bit dainty and flash, at least in perception. All the Japanese ones are creeping up in price, and, lets face it, they all look the same and offer much the same thing to the same market. None tap into the new environmental ethos.
Tata could have reinvented Defender as a modern fuel efficient, environmentally friendly, simple-to-work-on, off-highway utility vehicle at a price ripe for the picking in the huge growth market of the developing world, and leave the cashed-up wannabe-macho first world market to British billionaires. If not, that huge world market will be left to the Chinese - good for them.
I'm sure New Defender will be a fine vehicle, but, like everyone else here it seems, I expect it to be just another boring, swishy-looking, expensive JLR clone. Hope we're wrong.
Sadly it’s commentary like the above which demonstrates very little understanding of vehicle development, costing and compliance requirements.
There is no way a non-compliant vehicle could be built profitably in the modern world. It’s markets would restrict it and price would be exorbitant.
Tata already makes a basic 4WD, but it flopped here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombie
beg to differ, Manufacturers can easily make a basic vehicle compliant . All the mod cons and fashion luxuries do not need to be included .
That was the Tata fourby wagon and it was imported by a third party importer, not Tata, who either didn't have or didn't want to spend the necessary dollars in promotional advertising/support. The same thing happened with Mahindra - it was originally imported by a third party importer who, like the Tata importer, failed in the promotional and country wide support areas. Sales and support improved dramatically when both parent companies took over sales, adverting and support for their respective vehicles.Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoMick
Still needs crash compliance.Quote:
Originally Posted by goingbush
Multiple airbags
Emissions standards
Noise standards
Handling must meet criteria (lane change and braking)
Needs ABS and ESC
We’re not talking a low volume build that can apply for exemptions.
The “luxuries” are the easy, simple stuff, nothing more than a factory versions of all the PCs, Droid, Raspberry Pie type gadgets we drop in.
There is no way a non-compliant vehicle could be built profitably in the modern world.
Tombie, why do you say it would be non-compliant? I just meant not so posh and upmarket to be irrelevant to most of its world market. It could (will) be a lot smarter and higher-tech than a Landcruiser. All makers have to meet the same standards.
No, I'm not a car expert, but given everyone's comments above (I read the whole thread and the ones before it before posting), Tata seem better placed to meet world demand for a world vehicle than a U.K. luxury car maker. It's such a different project. But we'll see - there might be some similar arrangement behind the scenes, that they're not making a big deal of. They've said they need volume sales.
Anyway, my comment was just to add an idea to the conversation, in my attempt to contribute to the forums. Wasn't meant to be taken as gospel.
Tata already makes a basic 4WD, but it flopped here.
DiscoMick, so did Defender! [happycry] Neither were going to be big hits here. Defender was economical and plain, short haul, very off-road capable transport, whereas cashed-up Aussies needed/wanted powerful and showy, long-haul transport with only medium off-road ability (unless they make a sport of it, for which they can modify).
The new one could (will?) still be Defender size and capability, with Landrover componentry and sold under Landrover customer support - let's hope nothing like a Tata ute (which I've used - okay for what it was). Presumably nothing like a Hilux/Ranger/BT50 etc either. Or Discovery - it should have the room of a troopie.
Question: If you want a new full-sized, roomy, cross-country capable 4wd with decent load rating, but don't want a fuel-guzzler or a truck, what do you buy currently, without re-manufacturing it at the aftermarket shop? Not that I'll be buying one - I'm waiting for the solar-powered electric version!
But just out of interest, Tata's credentials for a compliant Defender:
From their sales brochure: "Tata vehicles are already found in Europe, Asia, Africa and the Americas. India’s largest automobile company, it is the world’s fifth largest truck manufacturer and fourth largest bus manufacturer. The first Tata vehicle rolled off the production line in 1954... [have] made over 8 million vehicles of all types so far."
And from Professor Google: "Tata Motors has auto manufacturing and assembly plants in Jamshedpur, Pantnagar, Lucknow, Sanand, Dharwad, and Pune in India, as well as in Argentina, South Africa, Great Britain and Thailand, with additional research and development centres in Spain and South Korea. It plans to establish plants in Turkey, Indonesia, and Eastern Europe. The world's fifth largest and India's largest automobile company. Tata Motors' principal subsidiaries include:
Jaguar Land Rover the British company making Jaguar and Land Rover (including Range Rover) cars
Fiat-Tata, was a joint venture with Fiat which manufactures automotive components and Fiat and Tata branded vehicles
Tata Technologies, Tata Daewoo, Tata Hitachi Construction Machinery and others.
Other Tata ventures include:
Tata Consultancy Services, Asia's largest IT company and World's Largest Software and Services Company
Titan Industries, World's 5th largest watch manufacturer.
Tata Power, India’s largest private sector electricity producer
Tata Starbucks, Tetley Tea
Tata Steel, World's 12th largest steel company.
Computational Research Laboratories, Tata initiative in high performance computing
Tata Institute of Fundamental Research
Indian Institute of Science
Tata Ecotechnology Centre
There are 19 Tata companies operating across Europe, with well over 60000 employees and a presence in almost every European country. Tata Motors is ranked 226th on the Fortune Global 500 list of the world's biggest corporations as of 2016.
And they've already got the name, anyway:
123MOTORS: TATA-LAND ROVER-1515F
Actually he’s part right, toymota drop at least 2 off the list in other markets with the 70series, they still use the na 4.2 6cyl diesel , not the td4.4v8 we’ve had here to meet emissions laws for 5-6 years . This would lower the cost and make it more reliable as well as increase sales.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombie
Landcruiser 70 - Double Cab - Toyota Tsusho Pacific Holdings - Ela Motors
Defender will be built on a new platform, known as the MLA (Modular Longitudinal Architecture):
Every Jaguar Land Rover to be renewed by 2024 | Autocar
"First up on the MLA platform will be the long-awaited new Defender. Its extended development cycle now makes more sense because its launch had to coincide with the new architecture.
It will be made at JLR’s new Slovakian plant from 2020, alongside the Discovery 5, which itself starts full production in Nitra this year based on the existing aluminium underpinnings. The space made available at Solihull with the relocation of the Discovery is expected to be filled later in 2020 by the new Jaguar J-Pace, a large super-luxury SUV also based on the MLA platform. Autocar understands that the next XJ is also set to make use of the electric version of MLA."
My guess is that the Defender will be monocoque with sub-frames, because they've been referring to it as their toughest platform so it needs to be stronger than the other models like the Defender, so it would be something like the integrated body of the D3 and D4, which had a monocoque body sitting on a ladder frame.
Also, this from January 2018, as a refresher:
New Land Rover Defender edges closer to production as cold weather testing commences | Autocar