New defender haters gonna hate..........

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Originally Posted by DeanoH

Well I guess this release makes it official, Land Rover is no longer in the business of making an OFF ROAD four wheel drive.

The emphasis here being on OFF ROAD. Sure it may be a good SUV even an excellent one, only time will tell. At the moment it's just another pretty boy SUV, no more, no less. A totally unproven soft roader (by design) regardless of all the glamour and glitz and waiting. A better model designation would have been Discovery 6 in an attempt to rescue the name/product line after the Disco 5's lack lustre impact or even Freelander 4.

Personally I feel cheated as I (and many others) held hope that Land Rover would actually come up with an OFF ROAD capable vehicle. I've been strung along for 3 years by Land Rover who promised the world but have come up with a hairdressers car and not a serious OFF ROAD vehicle. Maybe there's no longer a market for vehicles with this capability ?, OFF ROAD capability that is. But if Land Rover (or anyone else really) actually thinks a monocoque construction, air bag suspension, auto only, lawn mower sized engine with it's neck wrung fitted with 18"-20" tyres is a serious OFF ROAD contender, then IMO .......... 'they're dreaming'.

If I wanted an OFF ROAD capable 4WD of this size I guess the 79 series is now the only option, that or a second hand traditional Defender. It will be interesting to see how the release of this new Defender effects the prices of older Defenders. I'd expect something similar to the value maintenance of the last of the 6 cylinder intercooled/turbo Landcruisers and Patrols.

Then again, if I was after a mid/large size SUV then the new Defender may just fit the bill. :)


Deano :)

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I think this will run rings around a 79 series off road. You don’t really make any compelling arguments at all - every engine option is more powerful than the last Defender and there’s more to come, airbags are proven tech off road now, and if you’ve ever driven even a slightly modern Land Rover off road you’ll know that the Auto runs rings around a manual. Even my 2003 model L322 was way ahead of any manual models made much later - it creamed other vehicles off road - with 20” road tyres, air bags and auto and that’s 15 year old tech. After driving old tech and slightly newer tech, I know which I’d take - and I’m a bit of a Luddite myself.

Just try driving something newer and see how good they actually are off road - I think it would change your mind. 👍

wou;dnt be hard to run rings around a stock 79 offroad - they are not the best in stock form IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Homestar

Just try driving something newer and see how good they actually are off road - I think it would change your mind. 👍

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Correct,there is just no comparison,i have both here,and have had them for quite a few years.

I know which one does it the easiest in almost all situations by a country mile.And the diffs are tucked up out of the way as well.

The EAS vehicles just need a good set of boots,as the OEM tyres and sizes are ridiculous.

Good to see the new Defender has the OEM option of 18's.

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Originally Posted by Slunnie

Thats what everybody said when the Disco2 came out and then again when the Disco3 came out.

But everybody were surprised at how capable they all were when they got the into the bush. I havent heard anybody say these are not capable for a very long time.

I think it will be the same with the new Defender.... if it's not dragging its belly! :lol2:

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Same said about first coil sprung 110s/90s, and when lighter drive flanges introduced on 300tdi/disco/later RR classic so alloys could be fitted.

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Originally Posted by Fubar

A whole lot more than my Defender has.

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A new Discovery has zero in common with a Discovery 1.
A Discovery 3 and onwards has zero in common with a Discovery 1.
Your Defender (assuming its a pre 2016 model [tonguewink] ) has a commonality to a Disco 1.
The Defender upto 2016 was the last link to the original Range Rover classic design.
I wouldnt expect a "new" Defender model to have any link to a design from 1970.

What I did expect was a Defender that was going to be just another "award winning" clone of current models from Land Rover.

So far it looks like its not.
BUT keep in mind Land Rover have always been dam good at PR and marketing BS.

The only single question left:
Will the Defender have a good build quality and will it be reliable.

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Originally Posted by DazzaTD5

The only single question left:
Will the Defender have a good build quality and will it be reliable.

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and that's the $64000 question Dazza, maybe I'm being a glass half full type on this but to my mind a lack of involvement by FoMoCo should give it half a chance of being reliable.......time will tell

That's my take on it too. Given that the general rule of thumb for a new 4WD to be used like it was meant to be, is 7 years and on it's third owner, how well will the new Defender hold up in the 2nd hand market? That will be it's true test, when it is outside of it's warranty period and components begin to age. I would still like one to have a play in the outback though!

I don't mind the new defender although it just looks like another Disco , but I much prefer the Lego version.
Attachment 154135 The new Defender driving up hill & Lego's version of it . Attachment 154136Attachment 154137 driving down hill.
Wish my wouldn't do that.[bighmmm]

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Originally Posted by Homestar

Just try driving something newer and see how good they actually are off road - I think it would change your mind. 👍

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I don't really see a problem with this vehicle as a day to day medium weight 4WD/SUV, IMO it has the potential to be as good as any other vehicle in this category, only time will tell.

What I'm disappointed with is its (for me) total lack of serious OFF ROAD capability when compared with a traditional Defender. I consider OFF ROAD capability to actually be a vehicles capability off the road, not how well it can manage a formed road or track, however rough, washed out or whatever but actually off road. Particularly in the desert regions of Australia. Where this vehicle will fail miserably when compared to a traditional Defender is with it's air bag suspension and tyre/rim choices.

How do you reckon you'd go driving through this with the tyre/rim combo's that come with the new Defender ?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachmen...2&d=1568282443


One of the hazards of driving through desert country is bloody Holly Grevillia. It grows like a weed, dies and leaves a carpet of extremely hard and brittle twigs all over the place. It's like driving through a layer of 3" nails with multiple staked tyres being a common daily occurrence.

The old Defender with its standard 7.50R16 8 ply tyres can handle this straight out of the box, even better if upgraded to 10 or 12 ply tyres and/or with 8.25R16's which can come with even stronger side walls. The new Defenders air bags would be lucky to last a day in this without at least one being holed. The old Defender's coils of course would be fine. An old Series would traverse this terrain better than the new Defender. There are no 18+" tyres that I know of that will fit the new Defender that would survive this and that's even before considering the new defenders comparative low profile tyres lack of air down capability.

This is one aspect of the new Defenders design which for me is a complete failure in that it is not as tough/capable as its predecessor. It may be able to drive through the snow in the mountains of Kazakhstan or wherever but useless in the Australian desert.

Deano :)

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Originally Posted by DeanoH

I don't really see a problem with this vehicle as a day to day medium weight 4WD/SUV, IMO it has the potential to be as good as any other vehicle in this category, only time will tell.

What I'm disappointed with is its (for me) total lack of serious OFF ROAD capability when compared with a traditional Defender. I consider OFF ROAD capability to actually be a vehicles capability off the road, not how well it can manage a formed road or track, however rough, washed out or whatever but actually off road. Particularly in the desert regions of Australia. Where this vehicle will fail miserably when compared to a traditional Defender is with it's air bag suspension and tyre/rim choices.

How do you reckon you'd go driving through this with the tyre/rim combo's that come with the new Defender ?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachmen...path-ahead.jpg


One of the hazards of driving through desert country is bloody Holly Grevillia. It grows like a weed, dies and leaves a carpet of extremely hard and brittle twigs all over the place. It's like driving through a layer of 3" nails with multiple staked tyres being a common daily occurrence.

The old Defender with its standard 7.50R16 8 ply tyres can handle this straight out of the box, even better if upgraded to 10 or 12 ply tyres and/or with 8.25R16's which can come with even stronger side walls. The new Defenders air bags would be lucky to last a day in this without at least one being holed. The old Defender's coils of course would be fine. An old Series would traverse this terrain better than the new Defender. There are no 18+" tyres that I know of that will fit the new Defender that would survive this and that's even before considering the new defenders comparative low profile tyres lack of air down capability.

This is one aspect of the new Defenders design which for me is a complete failure in that it is not as tough/capable as its predecessor. It may be able to drive through the snow in the mountains of Kazakhstan or wherever but useless in the Australian desert.

Deano :)

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Agree. However the new Defender hasn't been designed for anything more than being an upper middle class [ high income earner] plaything. And it will be a magnificent plaything. Just don't expect it to do what the old defender could. One thing that stood out for me was the article that when they wanted to demonstrate the recovery points, which are behind covers which need to be removed before you can use them, and upon being told to get the ' defender' really bogged, it took 5 hours for the recovery. Now, this isn't a criticism of the new vehicle, but surely it highlights how little research was done in actual off road situations. How many of the prototypes were tested in Australia for example. A wonderful vehicle for the 21st century, but , at this point, until some one takes one thru the Simpson, up the Canning , or the cape the hard way, please don't call it a defender.