Thread: New defender haters gonna hate..........

Originally Posted by bob10

And now they have just increased in price , by how much remains to be seen. How many of these new SUV's will be seen in Africa, apart from Cape town. I'm betting Australian corrugations will sort out the 85 ECU's and the 20,000 bits/second , reasonably quickly. And good luck maintaining them yourself. BTW, how many of these new SUV's will be working in the mines? Sorry to be negative, but I think a Mahindra, with upgraded suspension, would be as good off road as this 21st century marvel.

*IMHO over time I think we might see a drop in price of old models.
*Yes I agree, Australia's harshness will show if Jaguar Land Rover has actually addressed build quality and reliability that they haven't managed to do throughout history.
*"And good luck maintaining them yourself" Well there isnt that many owners that can change out a failed clutch, adapter shaft, warped manifolds, failed gearbox, blown head gaskets etc etc on older models.
*Complying with laws and regulations, be them good or bad, is the reality that car manufacturers need to address. A older model any vehicle is simply not going to do this.

Looking at the release videos on Youtube, I was struck by the negativity of the comments.

My conclusion is that the new Defender will have to find a completely new market to the old Defender .

As one commenter said , all the English farmers now drive Chinese or Indian utes.

In Australia the old Defender only used to sell 30-50 a month if that so there were very few people that saw their benefits, and it looks like most of them are on this forum.

IMHO backed by 15 years in the motor industry the new Defender in Australia will find a completely new market. It will heavily cannibalize D5 sales as Australians value practicality over style. Witness the sales of Prado.

At first it will sell well regardless, but its ultimate success will be determined by its pricing. The 2 door will sell for a while and after a year or two will fall to low numbers and probably be discontinued, as has every other 2 door 4x4.

To expect LR to value attributes that are interest to Australians is just fantasy. LR is geared towards the USA, China and Europe. Australia is not even a blip on their radar. No long Range tank, excessive electronics great big wheels , electric brakes.(BTW no has mentioned that Bosch sold this idea to MB a few years ago and they tried it and it was AFAIK a disaster.) I wonder how electric brakes will go after a few stops in a river. Hope the IP67 works after some mechanics have been fiddling. Note the dinky little box on the side and a 6.5 litre pressure tank to wash off the blood after grouse shooting. How useful is that! SARC.
Besides all of that I love it and if I win Lotto will put my order in immediately, but then I don't expect to drive through virgin scrub. Hope there is room for a Long range tank.
Regards PhilipA

I think my thoughts are clouded by the fact I will never be able to afford one. No doubt they will be perfect for what they have been designed to do. Oh well, there's always Mahindra. Go out Toowoomba way, quite a few Mahindras , I've been told you can pick up a good second hand one reasonably priced.

Originally Posted by bob10

I think my thoughts are clouded by the fact I will never be able to afford one. No doubt they will be perfect for what they have been designed to do. Oh well, there's always Mahindra. Go out Toowoomba way, quite a few Mahindras , I've been told you can pick up a good second hand one reasonably priced.

You can pick up a new one at a reasonable price and there's more room in the dual cab than "Thailand Trucks".

I'd still like a new defender.

Originally Posted by Disco-tastic

Corrugations can break any vehicle. From what ive seen the air suspended Discoveries and FFRR deal with them better than most any other vehicle.

On this site,think i have seen one issue ever,that has been caused by rough roads,they are pretty well engineered.
And that was a late model RR or Sport that was under warranty.

People that carry on that they are fragile,have no idea what they are talking about.

Sure a set of coils and solid axles is simpler,but the advantage of EAS over coils is huge.

Mine has done thousands of k's on corrugated roads,and is on original suspension components,but LCA's now need replacing,which is more of a maintenance issue,than a failure.

Originally Posted by Saitch

You can pick up a new one at a reasonable price and there's more room in the dual cab than "Thailand Trucks".

I'd still like a new defender.

Me too, but we have to live in the real World. Alan whiting of Outback Travel Australia gives the Mahindra a good wrap. I'll post his you tube assessment on Walrus. Alan gives a honest assessment, warts and all.

In the motorcycle world they have a product that would fit the new defender: Spray-On Mud for Adventure Motorcycles - Rogue Motorcycle



-P

Think the issue here is that people were waiting for a Defender replacement which was not what Land Rover was intending to build. The vehicle they have released looks very much like the DC prototype that was shown back in 2011.

This may go some way to explaining why there was such a gap between stopping production of the Defender and the replacement vehicle being released. They did not want a lot of back to back comparisons between the 2 vehicles. They are clearly targeted at different market segments and perhaps it would have been better to let the name die and come up with a new name. It is not that the new Defender is a bad vehicle it is just not intended to do what the old one was for. Something that the powers that be in Land Rover seem to be happy with.

Some quotes from Gerry McGovern when speaking about the new Defender at the launch might assist people to understand a little more

"We've made that transition in the past ten years from a specialist brand, to a purveyor of luxury vehicles with more universal appeal"

"it's all about these very clean but very sophisticated surfaces which send subliminal messages that say 'looks tough, is tough'"

"There a super poster in the early days of Defender that shows the Defender in various proliferations, in a lot of utilities, electricity board, gas board, ambulance, forestry commission, firetruck. And you can argue that this isn't necessarily going that way"

This message is only re-enforced by the word from Land Rover that a commercial version of the Defender is not going to happen with Land Rover saying that the regular four Defender is already a double cab with a roof and therefore there's no need for a separate model. (Not sure if who ever said this was able to keep a straight face??!!) Now this may be company speak for we are not ready to let our competitors in on our model development plans for the Defender however based on the above comments from Gerry McGovern do not like the chances of the new Defender being seen as a commercial vehicle during design phase as that would not fit with the "a purveyor of luxury vehicles".

My thoughts are heading more towards the Defender being a replacement for the Discovery 4 and the Discovery being a 4x4 7 seat people mover for families. There being no intention to replace the Defender as this type of vehicle is part of Land Rovers history not what those in charge see as the future. What taking this in remember globally last year Land Rover sold more Discovery Sport than Toyota sold Landcruisers

Does Jeep have a better understanding of the market hence the new Wrangler and Gladiator derivative than Land Rover?
Can Jeep do this as they are not in the Luxury car market?
Why does Mercedes persist with the low volume G Wagon which has only recently had a significant redesign?
Does having a 'proper' 4x4 in your range which can be seen do the hand stuff create the halo effect necessary for the luxury models to flourish?