Land Rover is dead... Long live land rover!

in context it actually means Piece Of **** .

and this online definition suits the vehicle in question so eloquently ( thats JLR speak)

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Originally Posted by Bonino

I’d rather see them do this than going out of business. The decisions LR have made is so they can stay in business and, regardless of what the older generations may think, the consumer requirements have evolved and, surprise surprise, the latte drinking urbanistas are now the generation in the workforce who are spending their hard earned cash on goods and services to ensure the economy stays alive [bigsmile]

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The new one disappoints many of those that chose the Defender for what it is. This is not simply a generational thing. There are those that know what a Defender is for and those that never did and never will.

We are all now getting an idea of what the new one is good for. And many are disappointed that those same interests and reasons that led them to buy the old one cannot transfer easily to the new one. Those interests and reasons still exist for young and old, they have not disappeared. It is simply a market that LR have abandoned.

Maybe I want an excuse to replace the Defender with something more modern, but the problem is - the new one is not looking like a replacement. Nothing in the LR line up is.

If I want a modern car I choose the Tesla Model 3. If I also want a rugged load carrying utility or overland 4x4 I can take anywhere in the world I choose the original Defender. The new one does not compete. A luxury SUV offers me nothing.

My worry for LR is that younger generations will loose interest in SUVs. I know I have.

I'm sure the original defender will continue to be outfitted for overland travel by young solo and couple adventure travelers. It's iconic, it's insta cool, it's simple and cheap to maintain, it's easy to adapt, it can gobble up **** fuel, run on chip fat, and people around the world love them. All these things do not transfer to the new LR.

Those that know it are a small crew in the grand scheme of things. But look where you are - this forum is full of us! So you are going to hear it.

And if the new Defender is simply a cosmetic twist on the other vehicles in the line up - I can't see how it protects Land Rover from going out of business should lux SUVs go out of vogue.

LR are now highly exposed to the wants of a new eco conscious generation. The utility/fleet market for a load carrying 4x4 is much more predictable going forward. IMO they should have left a foot in! They didn't need to add another lux SUV.

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Originally Posted by trumpycam

Have been following this thread for a while with some amusement mixed with angst, when you pull back and remember that no one has actually driven one yet! Anyhow, made me recall that this discussion has happened before (old enough to have been involved) except around campfires and in magazines. At that time it was the same, about Land Rover abandoning it's core workhorse roots and pandering to the soft roaders(not sure if that term was in fashion then, but you can get my drift) The issue then was the change from the manly and rugged leaf spring to the wimpy coils (which we all knew was an idea destined to bring down the world as we knew it). So if you are listening LR give us back the old Series and win back our trust, at least for the short time before you go bust.

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The rot started with parabolic leafs and carbide lamps

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Originally Posted by AndyG

Many things, but in context .......

POS	Position (sports statistics)	https://www.acronymfinder.com/~/st/i/find2.gif
POS	Positive	https://www.acronymfinder.com/~/st/i/find2.gif
POS	Point-Of-Sale	https://www.acronymfinder.com/~/st/i/find2.gif
POS	Point-Of-Service	https://www.acronymfinder.com/~/st/i/find2.gif
POS	Period Of Service	https://www.acronymfinder.com/~/st/i/find2.gif
POS	Political Science	https://www.acronymfinder.com/~/st/i/find2.gif
POS	Place of Service	https://www.acronymfinder.com/~/st/i/find2.gif
POS	Part of Speech	https://www.acronymfinder.com/~/st/i/find2.gif
POS	Program of Study	https://www.acronymfinder.com/~/st/i/find2.gif
POS	Pomona (Amtrak station code; Pomona, CA)	https://www.acronymfinder.com/~/st/i/find2.gif
POS	Philosophy of Science	https://www.acronymfinder.com/~/st/i/find2.gif
POS	Plan of Study	https://www.acronymfinder.com/~/st/i/find2.gif
POS	Position of Strength

etc etc

I'm guessing Position of Strength[wink11][bigwhistle]

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[emoji1787][emoji1787]

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Originally Posted by goingbush

in context it actually means Piece Of (edited)

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These type of posts make me continually reconsider being on this forum.

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Originally Posted by manic

The new one disappoints many of those that chose the Defender for what it is. This is not simply a generational thing. There are those that know what a Defender is for and those that never did and never will.

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The small percentage of the 5k sold to the public per year(diehards) is not many, compared to the worldwide market they will now sell too, its a drop in the ocean.

All things considered, LR did what needed to be done to the defender to keep it viable, anyone that says otherwise is not considering ALL the facts rationally.

Here's a fun game, explain what you would have done differently redesigning the defender whilst taking into account it has to be sold in all markets(aim for 150-200k per year), with current and future emissions restrictions in mind, current and future safety (both occupant and pedestrian) in mind, keeping iconic features whilst being modern, being utilitarian, tough, capable and reliable whilst still being comfortable.

So if you were LR, what would you have done differently and why, but only do so considering all the factors involved(the above is not all but a small portion) like LR would have and showing the rationale behind what you would do differently.

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Originally Posted by blackrangie

The small percentage of the 5k sold to the public per year(diehards) is not many, compared to the worldwide market they will now sell too, its a drop in the ocean.

All things considered, LR did what needed to be done to the defender to keep it viable, anyone that says otherwise is not considering ALL the facts rationally.

Here's a fun game, explain what you would have done differently redesigning the defender whilst taking into account it has to be sold in all markets(aim for 150-200k per year), with current and future emissions restrictions in mind, current and future safety (both occupant and pedestrian) in mind, keeping iconic features whilst being modern, being utilitarian, tough, capable and reliable whilst still being comfortable.

So if you were LR, what would you have done differently and why, but only do so considering all the factors involved(the above is not all but a small portion) like LR would have and showing the rationale behind what you would do differently.

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Maybe you could explain why they called it a 'Defender' rather than a Discovery 6 [smilebigeye]

Yes it's for a modern market in a modern World and maybe the Defender name should have been left alone. It's their decision and, to be fair, most of the buyers wouldn't know or care in the slightest about the heritage.
They need volume and I don't think they could compete in the modern Ute market so they have moved the 'Defender' model upmarket.

I'm not sure about "keeping iconic features whilst being modern, being utilitarian, tough, capable and reliable whilst still being comfortable "
Reliability yet to be proven.
Is it utilitarian ? designed to be useful or practical rather than attractive ??
Modern, yes, capable & comfortable probably yes.

It's a consumable product for today's consumable world. Marketed differently to those before it. I bet there are 'influencers' already being signed up to spread the (paid for) word about how good it is.......

When I'm out in my Series I, Series II, Series III or Defender would I wave to one (when they finally appear) ? I'll have to think about that one.......


Colin

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Originally Posted by blackrangie

These type of posts make me continually reconsider being on this forum.

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I think you are too thin-skinned.

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Originally Posted by p38arover

I think you are too thin-skinned.

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Reported

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Originally Posted by gromit

Maybe you could explain why they called it a 'Defender' rather than a Discovery 6 [smilebigeye]

Yes it's for a modern market in a modern World and maybe the Defender name should have been left alone. It's their decision and, to be fair, most of the buyers wouldn't know or care in the slightest about the heritage.
They need volume and I don't think they could compete in the modern Ute market so they have moved the 'Defender' model upmarket.

I'm not sure about "keeping iconic features whilst being modern, being utilitarian, tough, capable and reliable whilst still being comfortable "
Reliability yet to be proven.
Is it utilitarian ? designed to be useful or practical rather than attractive ??
Modern, yes, capable & comfortable probably yes.

It's a consumable product for today's consumable world. Marketed differently to those before it. I bet there are 'influencers' already being signed up to spread the (paid for) word about how good it is.......

When I'm out in my Series I, Series II, Series III or Defender would I wave to one (when they finally appear) ? I'll have to think about that one.......


Colin

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You really didn't reply to the posts questions, rather bring up irrelevant naming arguments and avoid the questions entirely.