Land Rovers during the Snowy Scheme

**JDNSW** · 12th February 2015, 11:45 AM

I was in charge of an exploration crew in the Simpson Desert for almost two years in 1965-6, when Toyota was beginning to have an impact on four wheel drive sales.

The company I worked for bought us a fleet of new Landcruisers for the contract. As i owned a Series 2 at the time I was interested to compare the two.

The Landcruisers were not noticeably more reliable than Landrovers - some of the problems included regular breaking of wheel studs (to the extent that they all carried a few spares in the glovebox), continual carburetter problems, alternator failures, clutch failures. The steering was appalling due to bad engineering or the relay (later changed). Seat frames and upholstery failed to withstand hefty Australians and Australian sunlight.

My own company car was a FJ45V, the station wagon. This, with its short (104") wheelbase, long overhang, and single acting rear shock absorbers, was, I think, the roughest riding vehicle I have ever ridden in. It is also the only vehicle I have ever had break a spring through all leaves on a single bad bump! And the bodywork just fell to bits.

Compared to the Landrover, there were however some significant advantages, at least in some models. The traybacks with a 121" wheelbase and a one ton capacity were simply bigger and more useful. The wider track gave a better turning circle.

Disadvantages included that lack of four gears, low range was much higher than in a Landrover, and that could be a problem when you needed a creeper gear.

Some of our more adventurous people claimed that the swb soft top, with the hood off and windscreen folded, could do near enough to 100mph. Despite lousy steering and rather small unboosted drum brakes. Accident rates were generally higher than for Landrovers.

Like Landrovers, they had the petrol tank under the seat - but unlike Landrover, it was inside the body - so that any fuel leak would be inside the vehicle. We lost one swb hardtop that way. As far as I know the burnt out remains are still there.

Motor manufacture in Australia; Australia banned the import of fully built cars in 1914, to deal with shortages of shipping in WW1. But then kept this after the war. There were already a number of coachbuilders in the country, and one was Holden in Adelaide. Ford, while still using other bodybuilders, started assembling cars in Geelong in the mid 1920s, and gradually went to building bodies as well.

Holden, while still building bodies for a variety of mainly US manufacturers, received a capital injection from GM in the 1920s. They were already building pressed, all steel bodies for Chrysler by the time GM introduced this style of body in the late 1930s, by which time, as a result of the depression, GM held a majority of the shares (remaining Australian shareholders were bought out as the company geared up for production of the 48/215, a Chevrolet that had not gone into production in the US, due to the war).

As Diana pointed out, there was still a lot of anti-Japanese (and for that matter anti-German) sentiment in Australia into the 1960s and even beyond. My father would never even consider a Japanese car, for example - and he was still buying cars in the 1960s and 70s.

For an insider's view of the Holden story, a good read is "Big Wheels and Little Wheels", L.J.Hartnett, 1981.

John

**Melbourne Park** · 17th February 2015, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by JDNSW

Like Landrovers, they had the petrol tank under the seat - but unlike Landrover, it was inside the body - so that any fuel leak would be inside the vehicle. We lost one swb hardtop that way. As far as I know the burnt out remains are still there.

As Diana pointed out, there was still a lot of anti-Japanese (and for that matter anti-German) sentiment in Australia into the 1960s and even beyond. My father would never even consider a Japanese car, for example - and he was still buying cars in the 1960s and 70s.

John

The fuel story reminds me of European plumbing. In France, the plumbing is outside the building, because its easier to access. In Germany, they keep it inside, because it doesn't freeze. An attitude difference there ...

Concerning Holden, I think by 1931 they were a subsidiary.

And about anti-German and anti-Japanese. True with many. But in the mid 1950's, Bugs were being assembled at Clayton. By 1967, almost the whole car - even the engine - was made there. VW Clayton even developed a vehicle for Australia, which resembled the BMC Mini Moke.

And don't forget the Snowy Mountains workers. Many from Southern Europe. They had no anti Europe bias for their cars. Hence the popularity of VWs. VW's plant in Clayton Melbourne started to assemble Datsuns, and was bought by Nissan eventually, after VW pulled out (the Golf was badly made IMO although reliable if one disregards paint fade).

There was a lot of assembly of vehicles in Australia, and lots of different auto companies. And for a long time.

doug

**Lotz-A-Landies** · 17th February 2015, 09:23 PM

Hi Doug

Many of the things you say are true, however the Germans mostly abided by the Geneva Convention on the treatment of Western Allies Prisoners of War and very few Diggers suffered adversely by the hands of German or Italian prison guards The Japanese ignored the Geneva Convention, worked, starved and beat allied prisoners, many to death, murdered unarmed Australian nurses and never acknowledged the facts. Even today, when the war is mentioned, Japanese will remind people of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki Bombs, but omit the actions of their own troops.

This was a reason people would drive German but not Japanese cars for many decades.

Diana

**JDNSW** · 18th February 2015, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Melbourne Park

.......
And about anti-German and anti-Japanese. True with many. But in the mid 1950's, Bugs were being assembled at Clayton. By 1967, almost the whole car - even the engine - was made there. VW Clayton even developed a vehicle for Australia, which resembled the BMC Mini Moke.

And don't forget the Snowy Mountains workers. Many from Southern Europe. They had no anti Europe bias for their cars. Hence the popularity of VWs. VW's plant in Clayton Melbourne started to assemble Datsuns, and was bought by Nissan eventually, after VW pulled out (the Golf was badly made IMO although reliable if one disregards paint fade).

There was a lot of assembly of vehicles in Australia, and lots of different auto companies. And for a long time.

doug

There was never a real anti-European bias - it was specifically anti-German, and as Diana has pointed out, this was nowhere near as intense as anti-Japanese bias. But to some extent you are right - the European immigrants were not as knowledgeable about the Pacific war, and hence not as anti-Japanese. When I bought a VW as a teenager, one of my aunts commented that it smelled of gas ovens.

The VW was successful because it was durable (as shown by its performance in early Redex trials) and because, unlike almost every other car on the market, especially anything comparable, it had a heater.

When the VW was introduced the market was dominated by Holden (over 50% of all sales), with only one model, and a wide variety of English cars, selling in very small numbers except for Morris and Austin, a small number of European cars, mainly Fiat, Renault, Peugot, Simca, Citroen, Borgward, a larger number of locally assembled variants of US cars, mostly Ford and Chriysler. Imported US cars were virtually unheard of because of dollar restrictions, and that most US cars were not made in RHD.

Import and shipping restrictions meant there were very few fully imported cars, and these only in general luxury ones. Most cars sold in Australia had been locally assembled since 1914. As you point out, this means that local assembly has been going on for a long time, with a wide variety of manufacturers. Large scale, fully imported cars did not appear until around 1980, as protection for the local industry started to wind down.

John

**S3ute** · 18th February 2015, 09:25 AM

Hello from Brisbane.

Forgetting for the moment Land-Rovers, jeeps, PowerWagons, tojophobia and piston envy, and returning to the historic photographs that started the thread. The scheme huts have a bit of a history too.

You occasionally spot remnants of these in the most unlikely places - the last one that I came across was perched near a cliff in the hills between Eungella NP and Collinsville in northern Queensland.

You have to wonder how it got there and why. The present owner didn't know, but it came from the scheme.

Cheers,

**Killer** · 18th February 2015, 10:51 AM

When I was a kid we had a farm that ran off the Murray Valley Highway, the SMA were often moving their buildings along that road. They managed to knock out the overhead phone lines on a regular basis.

Cheers, Mick.

**mick88** · 18th February 2015, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by JDNSW

The Landcruiser without a two speed transfer case had a four speed gearbox with first so low that it was not used in normal driving. These were exceedingly rare in Australia, but the first Landcruiser I ever saw was one, in 1962, on a station south of Prairie. Its clutch failed while attempting to reach the main road after heavy rain.

John

In the 1950's and early 1960's my late uncle was the Overseer on the Dingo Fence, based at Smithville on the SA/NSW border. He had one of the first Toyota Landcruisers as a trial vehicle. He always said it was very powerful but lacked the performance of the Land Rovers and used a lot more juice!

Cheers, Mick.

**JDNSW** · 18th February 2015, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by mick88

........ He always said it was very powerful but lacked the performance of the Land Rovers and used a lot more juice!

Cheers, Mick.

In the middle of 1966 I drove my 2a diesel from the Simpson to Sydney. Averaged about 30mpg, with one stretch in S.A. an outstanding 36mpg.

Six months later (spent Christmas night at Augathella from memory) I drove the company FJ45V from Alice Springs to Brisbane. Average was about 9mpg, and the other FJ45V travelling in convoy with me averaged 6mpg. An FJ40 travelling with us averaged 12mpg. (I did almost as well driving an IH R190 (petrol) on the same trip a month later) As I mentioned above, carburetter problems were an ongoing hassle with these Landcruisers.

Note that diesel Landcruisers did not appear for about another decade.

John