Thread: Future availability of LPG

Originally Posted by Toxic_Avenger

It's a chicken or the egg situation.
Can't build a car without the refueling infrastructure.
Can't build a refueling run from ethanol manufacture site to refueling stations without the demand for it.

It's amazing how cars were ever invented!
California managed to do it with hydrogen and fuel cell powered cars.

Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

This is a better question: "As diesel costs less to produce than ULP, why is it more expensive at the pumps?"

Thats interesting. It was always cheaper than petrol up until 2001 I think it was when the 1st Gulf war happened. Diesel price went up and the rationale at the time was that was because Australian Oil was too light for Diesel and it was an import. Interestingly, since the Gulf war it never dropped in price in relation to petrol.

As a matter of fact, the cost of producing diesel has now almost certainly risen to be equal to or higher than petrol, as the specifications for the fuel have become tighter, especially the sulphur limit.

The real cost of producing a particular fuel will depend on what hardware the refinery has, and how long it has been in operation, and the composition of the oil being processed. Any change in the composition of the oil feedstock from that assumed when the refinery was designed will result in inefficiency and hence higher costs.

John

Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

It's amazing how cars were ever invented!
California managed to do it with hydrogen and fuel cell powered cars.

Interesting about California. They are s till actively extracting oil from downtown LA. Saw an interesting short video about this, [ame=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7skRX3ShYU]click here.[/ame] Hidden oil rigs in buildings along Hollywood boulevard!

One concern for 100% ethanol as a fuel could be its boiling point- about 78 degrees. In comparison octane BP is 125ish. So there would be losses and evaporated product at even normal summer temperatures. Modern fuel is stabilized to prevent fuel turning bad (summer blends vs winter blends etc).
Ethanol as a fuel burns relatively clear, so may even be concerns regarding fire safety? Race/drag cars running methanol (1 less carbon atom than ethanol) have been known to ignite, and no one knows that the driver is burning to death inside due to the clear flame.

Originally Posted by Toxic_Avenger;

Race/drag cars running methanol (1 less carbon atom than ethanol) have been known to ignite, and no one knows that the driver is burning to death inside due to the clear flame.

In 1957 my short circuit 500cc BSA was running on pure methanol ( Shell A ). At a meeting at the Vineyards it caught fire on the second lap which I was unaware of. Didn't know, couldn't see it but by crikey it wasn't long before I felt it. My leathers caught fire on the inside of my right thigh. I bailed out and beat myself out with dirt and dust from the side of the track.
Bike was stuffed so I moved onto a 500 AJS.

I had a BP Card until 1 private station on my usual route to work at Indooroopilly sold out for units (lpg provider), then 2 other private BP stations on Mogill Rd pulled pulled out their LPG gear...so swapped to Shell where at least I have several stations around me with LPG.

I get 15 to 18 litres per 100k on injected Lpg so its well worth having at 79c per litre in my area or even 90c per l as it was in the northern winter increase. My truck is a HC V8 with some cam so premium is the go on petrol. Given I am getting very similar consumption of LPG to petrol it could G o up quite a lot and im still saving...system paid off ages ago. On highway trips having close to 1000k on the combined fuel load is sweet.

When you consider that Rover v8 motors suffer no valve seat regression and run beautifully on LPG and oil stays clean the case to run it is a no brainer.

Cheers

Cheers

When you consider that Rover v8 motors suffer no valve seat regression and
run beautifully on LPG and oil stays clean the case to run it is a no
brainer.

Except for the loss of load area and/or range in the country.

After a lot of consideration I decided not to go gas as a major use for the RRC was remote touring. OK for a suburban or bitumin car.

Even less of a reason now due to no subsidy and cost increases. Diesel ticks the boxes for remote travel.

Regards Philip A

Load area loss is certainly true albeit not a lot if well set up. I manage with a family of 5. Range is improved over just petrol. True though that diesel is best if doing only country work. I just couldn't live with a td5 in town having driven a few. A tdv6 is a different proposition.

Cheers