Thread: GEMS vs Thor

IMHO, if your not real fussed about the bling then there would be nothing wrong with a GEMS. They both have there fors and against.

BOSCH

Engine management is a more modern ECU with really good adaption strategies built in. I believe it provides a slightly smoother idle, and more torque down low. however due to the design of the manifold a few things are a little harder to work on, such as the injector and coilpacks etc.

These also have a better gearbox ECU that is adaptive and communicates a lot better with the Engine management. Connectors were revised to provide better waterproofing etc... The bosch cars also got slightly better quality interiors and a few extra pieces of bling, maybe some sound deadening etc.

GEMS

The first versions of these came with not O2 sensors, however I have been told that this is not an issue unless you chip it.

In summary, if you can do without the self dimming external mirrors and padded arm rests then a GEMS would be worth the savings. However, IMHO it must be 97 or later, and be aware that some of the 98's were a bit of a bitser, with different parts from other P38's which can only be indentified with the VIN number.

Hope this helps,

Stu

P.S. I have a 97 HSE,

I have a 97 HSE with GEMS.

I actually prefer it to the Bosch Engine.

The only way I can describe it is that the older ones with GEMS feel and sound a lot more like a "grumbly" V8.

To me, the bosch feels a bit more "tinny"

There you go, the worst response ever written. It will only make sense to others who have driven both and prefer the GEMS - I know there are a few out there.

Oh, and one technically useful tidbit (possibly). The bosch can only have injector LPG installed. The GEMS can have Mixer LPG (as mine does) which is cheaper to install.

Dave

What year did ABS upgrade from rear only to all 4 wheels ? I know the first of the Thor's had 4 wheel ABS.

I think you mean traction control - not ABS, although TC does use the ABS system. TC was rear axle only initially and became standard on both axles from 99 onwards. There was something different about the speed at which TC operates at too - Thor worked at higher speeds, although that's largely irrelevant

The Thor has much more low rev torque for towing and the engine therefore sits in a lower rev range most of the time.

IMHO the Thor manifold transformed my 3.9 from no guts revver to a more modern feeling and gutsy engine.
Fuel economy should be better with Thor also, But I do not know the real world comparison.
AFAIK BMW also did a lot of work on relaibility of the BECM and there were ongoing improvements with sourcing of the little things like micro switches.

I recall Graeme Cooper telling me many years ago not to touch a GEMS, but Thors seemed better at that stage but it was early days then.

Certainly if I were buying one I would buy a Thor every time as it does not take long to spend 6K on a 38A.

Regards Philip A

just try both going up and down a very steep slippery hill in low range. In my limited experience the Thor is MASSIVELY more controlled and poised..... just my biast view

I reckon its an either way choice, I have a '95 and nothing against my 'pretty pig' but a later model would have been a better purchase (but was simply financially prohibitive 6 or so years ago). From what I've read on here, they are usually more reliable (but newer, so shouldn't they be?), a little more sophisticated technically and a bit better looking (matter of opinion but I personally do like the clear lights and bigger wheels look.

I'm not even certain if a well sorted early version is going to be a better proposition than a poorly maintained late model. I would think though that it will probably be cheaper in the long term.

Most important is the usual common sense car buying stuff that should hold sway with your decision making...

Go for low km's, one owner, full service history with no/little off roading or major accidents. A lot of these relatively expensive when new vehicles have dodgy service histories after the wealthy owners (or more likely businesses) stopped paying the (tax deductible) bills during their initial lease periods. The run it into the ground mentality is especially ease to foster when stealer-dealer costs are ridiculously high (300% mark up and higher hourly rates than my GP charges).

Put time and resources to work pre-purchase to seek a "known" vehicle or get any others checked for the usual foibles (especially condition of engine/cylinder liners if possible). If heads off check is not possible (probable not usually) then at least go to a reputable LR repairer (that you will use from time to time in the future) and have them plug it in and check it over... and produce a written report. DO NOT trust RACV-NRMA (or similar) to look over and report on one unless the agent is a known LR expert. With out specifically naming the poor performer (I live in VIC) I feel I got stiffed on the pre-purchase report on mine...

Make sure the fuse box is in good nick no signs of over heating/burns and ensure all the electrics work properly. Double check heater/AC operation and see if pollen filters have been changed regularly and that plenum foam is in good nick (primary entry point for crap to enter and foul/damage system).

DO NOT buy one with oil leaks, it's not worth the silly costs involved in simple gasket and seal replacement (if you don't do that stuff yourself). Remember, even though its a standard LR joke, there are plenty of well looked after ones with out leaks.

Buy one with as many factory accessories as you can... simple little things like a-bars and brush guards are ridiculously hard to come across cheap second hand and you don't want to even think about new prices. Even if it's stuff you don't want or like take it as you can probably make some decent coin e-baying off unwanted P38 accessories!

Save a little cash if you can for:

- Cooling system refresh (flush radiator, check water pump, viscous coupling, hoses and belts & repair/replace as required) I reckon just do it wether you think its required or not as its worth the peace of mind;
- Purchase and fit (DIY) HRA's EAS Bypass and on board air kit's;
- Doing (DIY) EAS & suspension component rebuild when it goes (cause you have the HRA to 'get out of jail' on a breakdown anyway);
- HRA Snorkel (DIY & nearly ready for market) if you intend any contact with water or mud above hub/sill height when off-roading;
- Gas conversion to whatever is within your budget but injection is usually a large step up in cost (although Junosi seems to have gotten his done at reasonable cost). Note: mixers can be prone to backfires which usually end up being spark/misfire related;
- So last add a full service to the list (plugs, leads, filters & oils for engine, trans, and diffs also get a grease and tune).

I seriously doubt there will be a massive gap between the GEMS & THORS in the long term, but IMHO its just plain common sense to trust German electronics over the Brit stuff. Even though they were exported 'en masse', I really don't think the poms gave much care to anything other than what would happen in their own back yard. The Lucas stuff isn't generally happy living with heat in the longer term and I've even read somewhere here there's a P38A HEVAC setting that doesn't know how to recognise more than 40 degrees celcius... It's weird, but evidence is that I swear my '95 always comes alive and goes a whole lot nicer during Melbourne winters!

Sorry if any of this seems too 'suck eggs' stuff, I'm just getting some of my own P38A therapy writing about it all!

Dave & 'the pretty pig'

P.S. When you do end up with the right one for you, look and ask here before spending your hard earned. There is generally very, very good DIY, troubleshooting and cost saving advice on the AULRO P38A Range Rover page. And, it sounds really silly, but it also seems to me that its sensible to have access to a decent second vehicle with P38A's just so you don't have to rush to complete unforeseen repairs. Just being able to take the time to source and ship a part from the UK can save 100's and 1000's of $'s.

[QUOTE=DT-P38;1267343]

Save a little cash if you can for:

That is great advice DT-P38. Excellent!

There is only one matter you raised which I would change and that is to make it absolutely essential to -

1 -rod the radiator rather than a simple flush.

2 -replace the water pump and the viscous cooling fan coupling.

These vehicles are getting older now and with both age and kilometres precipitating wear and failure any of these failing will end in financial disaster.

I prefer to think of this expenditure as almost guaranteed insurance against any accidental overheating of that oh so sensitive to overheating and then expensive to rebuild V8 [4 or 4.6] with the inevetiable following slipped liner or head gasket which will need attending to.