P38 severe death wobble

**wayneg** · 7th January 2011, 11:26 AM

Could you give us a follow up on how the job went and tools required, difficulty etc.
Glad you found the cause.

**willem** · 7th January 2011, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by PeterAllen

As suspected by Willem and Bee Utey the bush on the Panhard Rod connecting to the chasis is shot. large amounts of movement at the joint when reviewed under the car and steering jerked around. You both certainly are spot on in the diagnosis. Got the bushes this morning and a 23mm socket for those bolts.
Willem, does the bolt on the axle side go into a threaded housing on the axle as for the life of me cannot see any nut sticking out anywhere although I had not removed the wheels and hadn't jacked the car and it may be hiding near the airbag. Any clues?

Actually, Peter, I can't remember. But I do remember that it wasn't difficult to remove them. In fact the whole job was pretty straight forward.

Just a quick tip for when you put it back - because the up and down movement twist the Panhard rod you may have to twist it slightly to line the bolt hole up again. I used a pipe wrench.

Willem

**wayneg** · 7th January 2011, 06:26 PM

looking on Rave its a nut and bolt,

For reference this site give bolts and nuts as parts

Range Rover 2 Front Panhard Rod at www.rimmerbros.co.uk

**PeterAllen** · 10th January 2011, 01:20 PM

Hi all,
Well unfortunately my computer died last Friday so didnt get to see the last of the posts on here and in addition, a little old lady decided to drive into the side of P38 with her car. All involved are ok but the drivers door and rear door will need to be replaced on the P38.
Back to the Panhard rod.
Well set about undoing the drivers side where the Pandhard rod attaches to the chasis. Firstly there is a metal retainer that needs to be bent over so you can acces the rear nut with a socket or spanner ( 15/16"). I used a 23mm socket on the front. I finally got movement of the bolt but no way could I get the nut to undo. Had to resort to a extended handle (breaker wrench) and finally had success of undoing the nut.
The Passenger side has the Panhard connected to the front axle, again a lock nut and plate was fitted and was easy to undo. The main bolt on this side does not have a nut on it so don't bother looking for it. It just unscrews from the axle housing.
With the bolts out the Rod was easy to take out.
I could not remove the old bushes so went down to a local mechanic and got them pressed out and the new ones pressed in for $20.
When I returned and tried to reinstall, the rod appeared 20mm too short.
The passenger side wheel had moved out past the guard and the whole axle seemed to have moved by 20mm to the passenger side. At this stage I must say I was a bit confused and perplexed and thought that the air suspension must have somehow altered things.
I then jacked up the car and supported the car under the chasis members on each side leaving the axle free as I had jacked the car up previously under the front axle. Located and secured the rod at the drivers side to the chasis and then was able to push the wheel hub on the passenger side in enough to locate the bolt through at the axle end.
To be honest I have no idea whats behind that whole scenario but the panhard is now back in and the Death Wobble has been eliminated.
Tips.... support car under side chasis rails and remove front wheels. The "bastard" of a bolt securing the panhard to the chasis on the drivers side is much easier to tackle using the breaker wrench from the outside of the vehicle pushing down rather than from under the vehicle pushing up. Mine had locktight all over it so from the start to the finish of the thread was extremely tight to turn and my back is feeling it. If I had taken the drivers wheel off first and attacked it from the side of the car rather than being under it, would have saved my back.
Nevertheless. Job done and I'm happy. Now all I have to do is get it to the assessors and get the damage repaired from Fridays crash.
Thanks all for your advice.

**glenhendry** · 10th January 2011, 01:26 PM

Ah, great result. Good followup info! I will be under mine next chance with someone bouncing the steering wheel...

**willem** · 11th January 2011, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by PeterAllen

Hi all,
Well unfortunately my computer died last Friday so didnt get to see the last of the posts on here and in addition, a little old lady decided to drive into the side of P38 with her car. All involved are ok but the drivers door and rear door will need to be replaced on the P38.
Back to the Panhard rod.
Well set about undoing the drivers side where the Pandhard rod attaches to the chasis. Firstly there is a metal retainer that needs to be bent over so you can acces the rear nut with a socket or spanner ( 15/16"). I used a 23mm socket on the front. I finally got movement of the bolt but no way could I get the nut to undo. Had to resort to a extended handle (breaker wrench) and finally had success of undoing the nut.
The Passenger side has the Panhard connected to the front axle, again a lock nut and plate was fitted and was easy to undo. The main bolt on this side does not have a nut on it so don't bother looking for it. It just unscrews from the axle housing.
With the bolts out the Rod was easy to take out.
I could not remove the old bushes so went down to a local mechanic and got them pressed out and the new ones pressed in for $20.
When I returned and tried to reinstall, the rod appeared 20mm too short.
The passenger side wheel had moved out past the guard and the whole axle seemed to have moved by 20mm to the passenger side. At this stage I must say I was a bit confused and perplexed and thought that the air suspension must have somehow altered things.
I then jacked up the car and supported the car under the chasis members on each side leaving the axle free as I had jacked the car up previously under the front axle. Located and secured the rod at the drivers side to the chasis and then was able to push the wheel hub on the passenger side in enough to locate the bolt through at the axle end.
To be honest I have no idea whats behind that whole scenario but the panhard is now back in and the Death Wobble has been eliminated.
Tips.... support car under side chasis rails and remove front wheels. The "bastard" of a bolt securing the panhard to the chasis on the drivers side is much easier to tackle using the breaker wrench from the outside of the vehicle pushing down rather than from under the vehicle pushing up. Mine had locktight all over it so from the start to the finish of the thread was extremely tight to turn and my back is feeling it. If I had taken the drivers wheel off first and attacked it from the side of the car rather than being under it, would have saved my back.
Nevertheless. Job done and I'm happy. Now all I have to do is get it to the assessors and get the damage repaired from Fridays crash.
Thanks all for your advice.

Beauty, Peter,

Glad you had success! Thanks for letting us know how it went.

Willem

Lap · 26th January 2012, 06:31 AM

Hi everyone!
I am new here but need help asap. I drove my P38 (1998) and turned into an icy (which I didn't aware) side road. The P38 slipped side way and the front right wheel hit the curb at app. 15-20km/h. The front axle moved to left side at 20mm. I can't drive the P38 straight at the usual position of the steering wheel but have to turn left 180 degree to stay straight.
I took a look under and found the the pan hard rob was bent. I couldn't see more damages. I took the P38 to the dealership I used to repair it. I received a scary quotation yesterday at CAD 7,850.00.
The tech said I need to replace the
1. Pan Hard Rod CAD205,
2. Two Radius Arms CAD3,200,
3. Two Front Air Spring CAD1,200,
4. Tie Rod+Drag Link CAD 530 (I don't know what this is),
5. Swaybar+Endlinks CAD320 (again, I don't know what this is).
The labor involves is another CAD1,366 including alignments
The dealer is pushing me to either repair it or take the P38 back.
Can anyone assist me with what I should proceed with? Can I jsut replace the pan hard rod only?
Many thanks
Lap

**glenhendry** · 26th January 2012, 07:02 AM

The pan hard rod wont make the steering wonky, but the other two steering rods will. You should be able to pick up steering link and track rod (with tie rod ends on) second hand or new for a lot less. You could fit them and then get a wheel alignment. You only need a cheap ball joint separator tool.

Id be going to find a P38 getting wrecked and get all three rods. All of the tie rod ends could need replacing from wear, rather than the accident.

Seems to me like a very big impact would be needed to hurt the radius arms, but the bushings could be ripped. Cant tell without looking at them.

Air springs only need replacing if they are leaking...

**wayneg** · 26th January 2012, 12:13 PM

If you can get the part numbers for the bits you need get onto this website Land Rover Spares and Parts Direct and you will see how much cheaper the parts can be had for. Put all the numbers in add to cart and you can get a shipping quote straight away. They use DHL express tracked so wont take long. If you cant do it yourself find an Independent garage stay away from the Stealer's.

Go to this website to get a PDF parts catalogue for free
http://www.roverparts.com.au/range_rover_pa38

Lap · 26th January 2012, 05:23 PM

Thank you glenhendry and wayneg. I went down to the dealer this afternoon. The service manager and the tech both pushed me to make decision to go for the repair right the way. I insisted to let me inspect the damages. They raised the P38 and showed me the undercarriage. I can only see the pan hard rod and the anti roll bar (sway bar?) end ( which limks to other parts looks like axle) were bent. I don't see further damages. The tech said the pan hard rod was bent down 3 inches, since it was made by steel and is elastic; right at the moment of impact the pan hard rod must be bent for more than 5 inches. Under such an impact and movement of the under carriage, the radius arms, tie rod + links, front air bags, sway bar and the road wheel must be replaced. I asked him why the radius arms as I can't see damages or change in shape when comparing the left and right arms, futhermore; I see the arms are cast metal and it shouldn't be bent. The tech rephased that the impact could make hairy cracks in the arms which could cause a severe accident in the future if not replace now. He said all the repairs quoted are not recommanded but mandated, period. Either repair all or leave. I surprised him that I decided to pay the inspection fee and leave. He said he would not let me go because the P38 is not road safe. I insisted and the service manager required me to sign a letter indicating I admit the P38 is not safe unless their suggested/mandated repair is done. I paid the inspection fee and left. Now the P38 is home. I will take you advices and gather costs of the pan hard rod, bushings and the anitroll bar (swaybar + end links). Order the parts and try to replace them myself. Although I have never do mechanical service to my P38, I will try this time as I feel confident as you guys are very helpful. I must say I am very upset by the dealer. I service the P38 since I bought it new from this dealer. The total service fee I paid all those years after the warranty expired worth more than a new Range Rover, perhaps they try to push me to buy a new one this time. I will not go back there anymore. Again, thank you for your input and I will update the progress of the repair. Thanks again!

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